Extremely confused- HELP

So I tried to add another fish to my tank today, I acclimated him correctly into the tank and immediately he fell to the ground. I was worried but still left him a few minutes as advised my my local fish store, but there was no improvement and by the time he was moving he was darting round the tank. I knew something wasn’t right the fish didn’t look happy so I netted him out and took him back in. (not appreciating the drive back) by this point. The LFS accept fish back in the first 5 days. He tested my water as I asked him too just to confirm my results matched and he described my water as “perfect”. By this point I was really confused, the store colleague put him back in the tank with the others and automatically he flopped and started dying. He was still still moving in his tub so I have no idea what happened. I was adviced that they would treat the guppies, as most chain companies they accept fish back as they can claim back of their supplier. I asked if I’d need to treat my tank for anything and he said no. He refunded me and apologised. My guppies all seem fine no problems. Extremely confused, could anyone please help? Advice is appreciated.

There are a couple of possible explanations, I will simply mention them with no intention of deciding which one.

Something to do with your tank water; ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, toxins, additives, etc. The fact that one's fish seem OK does not mean new fish may not have issues. With many of these it is the sudden "shock" that can do exactly what you describe. Fish adjustment is not rapid, depending upon circumstances. [By the way, when testing water in a store, always ask for the numbers so you/we know exactly. I have frequently heard people say "perfect" when it was anything but adequate.]

Internal injury during netting/bagging/acclimating. External injury (though it may not show up).

Byron said:

There are a couple of possible explanations, I will simply mention them with no intention of deciding which one.

Something to do with your tank water; ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, toxins, additives, etc. The fact that one's fish seem OK does not mean new fish may not have issues. With many of these it is the sudden "shock" that can do exactly what you describe. Fish adjustment is not rapid, depending upon circumstances. [By the way, when testing water in a store, always ask for the numbers so you/we know exactly. I have frequently heard people say "perfect" when it was anything but adequate.]

Internal injury during netting/bagging/acclimating. External injury (though it may not show up).

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Many thanks for your reply. There is no ammonia or nitrite in the water I tested it before I went to the store. The PH sits around 7 I try my best to add enough mineral salts to keep it at this number. The water here is extremely soft as I figured over the past few months. It did seem more like shock to me to. When he was put back in the store shop display tank he wasn’t acclimated back in. The colleague just poured him in with the water from in my tank. I don’t know if this is what made him then flop. You have not mentioned how it could have been some sort of disease? Would you say it’s unlikely to be the cause? Thanks for your help.

Guppylover3x said:

Many thanks for your reply. There is no ammonia or nitrite in the water I tested it before I went to the store. The PH sits around 7 I try my best to add enough mineral salts to keep it at this number. The water here is extremely soft as I figured over the past few months. It did seem more like shock to me to. When he was put back in the store shop display tank he wasn’t acclimated back in. The colleague just poured him in with the water from in my tank. I don’t know if this is what made him then flop. You have not mentioned how it could have been some sort of disease? Would you say it’s unlikely to be the cause? Thanks for your help.

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Also we must keep in mind that many of these issues are not reversible. For example, if the fish had been injured initially by the store employee, and reacted as you describe which would be expected, it is not going to recover no matter what. Some forms of water shock can do this too.

Byron said:

Also we must keep in mind that many of these issues are not reversible. For example, if the fish had been injured initially by the store employee, and reacted as you describe which would be expected, it is not going to recover no matter what. Some forms of water shock can do this too.

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I must say the fish did not look injured, however as you suggest it doesn’t always show up. He was very active and swimming in his bag. I must say this has almost kept me of fish keeping. Never have I encountered anything like this. Thanks for your help.

I'm curious, what are the nitrate levels in your tank? Do you do routine partial water changes? If so, how much and how often.
There's a condition referred to as 'old tank syndrome'. Fish can adapt to slowly changing and degrading water quality. But if/when a new fish is added, the shock of the [poor] water chemistry can kill - ?
Just thinking out loud.

AbbeysDad said:

I'm curious, what are the nitrate levels in your tank? Do you do routine partial water changes? If so, how much and how often.
There's a condition referred to as 'old tank syndrome'. Fish can adapt to slowly changing and degrading water quality. But if/when a new fish is added, the shock of the [poor] water chemistry can kill - ?
Just thinking out loud.

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I will test my peramters and post in a moment. I use the tetra 6 in 1 and then the liquid tetra kit for ammonia. Bare with me. Thanks for your help.

AbbeysDad said:

I'm curious, what are the nitrate levels in your tank? Do you do routine partial water changes? If so, how much and how often.
There's a condition referred to as 'old tank syndrome'. Fish can adapt to slowly changing and degrading water quality. But if/when a new fish is added, the shock of the [poor] water chemistry can kill - ?
Just thinking out loud.

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Okay so following on from your last messages. I perform 50/75% weekly water changes usually or more when I have ammonia spikes they don’t usually last long at all. I’ve noticed spikes when adding tetra safe start so I’ve stopped these last few days. I think this is because it’s too late in the cycle, because I carry out large water changes I thought this would help. When I have time I’ll do more throughout the week maybe an extra odd one or two here and there. I don’t think you can go wrong with water changes during cycling. They are crucial. My permaters are below.

No3 - 0
No2 - 0
GH - 8/16 (the strips aren’t as accurate but the colouring was between these number)
PH - unfortunately sitting at around 6.8 at the moment so I may need to add more minerals in with the next water change. That being said the minerals I use are supposed to “balance the PH” and it doesn’t seem to be doing so unless I’m not adding enough in. (Description of the mineral supplement is attached below)
Cl2 - 0
Ammonia - 0

I’ve read that the ammonia kit I’m using tests for ammonium which worries me sometimes because I could be performing changes for no reason. I haven’t had much luck finding the perfect test kit. Thanks for your help.

When that product says it balances pH, it is referring to the KH factor which will prevent fluctuations of the pH above or below what the source water pH is at. In other words, if your tap pH is 6.5 then this product will keep it there, or very close. That is the function of the KH, and the higher the KH, the more buffering to prevent the pH fluctuating up or down.

I can't remember which thread, but back a time I had this in mind when I suggested a calcareous substrate. Aragonite for example would raise the pH above 7 without question, though I don't know about GH but that plus this product might be needed. Alternatively, adding some aragonite in the filter can raise pH; I did this in one tank and the pH went from 6.2 up to 7.8 within as day and using just two or three tablespoons of aragonite in a mesh bag in the canister filter. And that was a 90g tank.

Byron said:

When that product says it balances pH, it is referring to the KH factor which will prevent fluctuations of the pH above or below what the source water pH is at. In other words, if your tap pH is 6.5 then this product will keep it there, or very close. That is the function of the KH, and the higher the KH, the more buffering to prevent the pH fluctuating up or down.

I can't remember which thread, but back a time I had this in mind when I suggested a calcareous substrate. Aragonite for example would raise the pH above 7 without question, though I don't know about GH but that plus this product might be needed. Alternatively, adding some aragonite in the filter can raise pH; I did this in one tank and the pH went from 6.2 up to 7.8 within as day and using just two or three tablespoons of aragonite in a mesh bag in the canister filter. And that was a 90g tank.

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Thank you very much for your response. I’m pleased I know what the problem is now my PH needs to increase and I was wondering why it wasn’t. I imagine it would be quite difficult to change from gravel to sand. I’ve also never used sand in any of my aquariums but I’m sure it definitely has its benefits. When you saying I can add it into the filter I’m not sure how I’d get it into a mesh bag and closed. The filter in my old fluval spec tank requires a carbon and this comes in a mesh bag I’ve got loads stocked up. I could rip cut this out I guess but I’m not sure got I’m make sure the bags closed. I’ve had a browse on eBay and found a PH buffer that could be added. The link is attached below, details are in the description of the listing. Many thanks for the excellent advice.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vitalink...olution/163292991116?var=&hash=item2605054e8c

Sorry the link it now attached, it didn’t upload for some reason.

Guppylover3x said:

Thank you very much for your response. I’m pleased I know what the problem is now my PH needs to increase and I was wondering why it wasn’t. I imagine it would be quite difficult to change from gravel to sand. I’ve also never used sand in any of my aquariums but I’m sure it definitely has its benefits. When you saying I can add it into the filter I’m not sure how I’d get it into a mesh bag and closed. The filter in my old fluval spec tank requires a carbon and this comes in a mesh bag I’ve got loads stocked up. I could rip cut this out I guess but I’m not sure got I’m make sure the bags closed. I’ve had a browse on eBay and found a PH buffer that could be added. The link is attached below, details are in the description of the listing. Many thanks for the excellent advice.

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The link didn't make it. But there is another method using a mesh bag of 2-3 tablespoons of aragonite sand/gravel. I placed this in front of the filter return at the back of the tank, and the water coming out of the filter went through the mesh bag which raised the pH a bit. I was only aiming for a pH of 6.6 that time, and this method kept it there from the regular 5-6 in that tank.

Byron said:

The link didn't make it. But there is another method using a mesh bag of 2-3 tablespoons of aragonite sand/gravel. I placed this in front of the filter return at the back of the tank, and the water coming out of the filter went through the mesh bag which raised the pH a bit. I was only aiming for a pH of 6.6 that time, and this method kept it there from the regular 5-6 in that tank.

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The link is now attached. This seems like another useful way. I’m sure how I could this with my filter though. It would have been a lot easier in my old tank with the built in filtration system compartment. Thanks for your help.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vitalink...olution/163292991116?var=&hash=item2605054e8c

Guppylover3x said:

The link is now attached. This seems like another useful way. I’m sure how I could this with my filter though. It would have been a lot easier in my old tank with the built in filtration system compartment. Thanks for your help.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vitalink...olution/163292991116?var=&hash=item2605054e8c

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I do not think this can be used in a fish tank. It is a pH buffer for hydroponic plant cultivation, where terrestrial plants are grown in water rather than soil as it is faster.

Byron said:

I do not think this can be used in a fish tank. It is a pH buffer for hydroponic plant cultivation, where terrestrial plants are grown in water rather than soil as it is faster.

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Apologies Byron. You now finally have the correct link! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterlif...hash=item5d6ee010bc:m:m9MDYr4keA8TSn6yWy7XE0g