New to this, help! My fish keep laying on the bottom of the tank and dying!!

DanielaRae · Oct 26, 2017

Hi guys, I'm new to this whole fish keeping world, so I appreciate any help!

I have a 10gallon tank and bought everything from Petco...filter, heater, rocks, ect...I put quick start and api water conditioner in to start and had it running for about a week before adding fish. So far ever single fish I attempted to keep has died. I had a small school of 5 fish (I don't remember what they were) and after a few days they died off. I also had one male sunburst platy and a tiger Barb. I know the tiger bard was a bad idea, but I knew nothing about fish and the guy at the pet store told me the tiger Barb would go well with my platy and fish school. No! The tiger Barb bullied my platy and I caught him eating two of my school fish. So I bagged him up and took him back to the pet store and got my two school fish replaced and a black balloon Molly to replace the tiger Barb. But then, like I said, the rest of my school fish died anyway and so did my platy! For two days my platy would sink to the bottom of the tank and just lay there like he was dead and he didn't eat. I didn't have a way to test my water. I thought it might be because of the bullying. But he ended up dying the next morning. The Molly seemed fine. But I changed out about 50% of the tank water. I also went to petco to have them test my water after the water change. The lady said my water looked really good. So I bought another balloon Molly and a snail to keep my black Molly company. They were following each other everywhere, you could tell they were super happy, eating everything. That was yesterday. Last night my black Molly started acting like the platy....started laying on the bottom of the tank like dead, then get up swim around, then back down. So this morning I did a 95% water change again, even though they said my water was fine. Now my new orange Molly is on the bottom of the tank! He's actually hiding in the cave. My black one seems alittle more alive, but every now and then he'll still lay down too like he's dead. I feel so bad I don't know what's causing this

they look completely normal as far as no white spots, no gasping for air....just laying like dead

any thoughts on what I should do???

Byron · Oct 26, 2017

Welcome to TFF.

The issue here is most likely ammonia poisoning. Nitrite is less likely given the circumstances, but that would be next. This is due to the tank not being cycled before adding fish. The water being OK at the store is likely because you had done the water change. I doubt it would be OK now.

I would return as many of the fish as they will allow. Get yourself a test kit, preferably the API liquid Master Combo which has liquid tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The API "Quick Start" can't hurt but I've no idea what bacteria it contains nor how reliable it is, but it may not be sufficient to deal with cycling in a new tank loaded with fish. And you have too many fish for a 10g.

The other thing is the water parameters of your source water, tap presumably. What is the general hardness (GH) and pH? You should be able to track this down from the water authority, check their website for water data. Post the link if you can't decipher things and one of us can take a look. Some fish have very specific needs.

If the fish must remain in the tank, do daily water changes of half the tank volume or more, use the products mentioned, and hope for the best. I would try to return any surviving fish though, as you will likely still have problems with water or numbers, but we can deal with that later.

Byron.

DanielaRae · Oct 26, 2017

Byron said:
Welcome to TFF.

The issue here is most likely ammonia poisoning. Nitrite is less likely given the circumstances, but that would help be next. This is due to the tank not being cycled before adding fish. The water being OK at the store is likely because you had done the water change. I doubt it would be OK now.

I would return as many of the fish as they will allow. Get yourself a test kit, preferably the API liquid Master Combo which has liquid tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The API "Quick Start" can't hurt but I've no idea what bacteria it contains nor how reliable it is, but it may not be sufficient to deal with cycling in a new tank loaded with fish. And you have too many fish for a 10g.

The other thing is the water parameters of your source water, tap presumably. What is the general hardness (GH) and pH? You should be able to track this down from the water authority, check their website for water data. Post the link if you can't decipher things and one of us can take a look. Some fish have very specific needs.

If the fish must remain in the tank, do daily water changes of half the tank volume or more, use the products mentioned, and hope for the best. I would try to return any surviving fish though, as you will likely still have problems with water or numbers, but we can deal with that later.

Byron.

Thanks for the advice!
My plan is to take them back to the pet store today....I feel so terrible the way they look :'(

Honestly I didn't know about cycling your tank until I started researching today. How long do you think I should be cycling the tank before adding fish?

This is my city's water info site
https://www.alexandriava.gov/health/info/default.aspx?id=90119

I clicked on the "basic water quality summary" in the PDF file, and saw what you were mentioning, but I don't want to botch it up trying to retell it to you here, so there is the link...

I'm just going to return the two fish and the snail and have an empty tank til I can pick up my own test kit and get the water cycled. Just for clarification though, you mentioned that being to many fish for the 10 gallon tank? The two mollies and the snail that I have in there now would be to much? Just for clarification...

Thanks for your help!!!

Essjay · Oct 26, 2017

The report states
"How hard is your water?
Total hardness is a measure of the concentration of two minerals naturally present in water: calcium and magnesium. High hardness levels cause soap not to foam as easily as it would at lower levels. Hardness levels averaged 114 parts per million or 6.7 grains per gallon which is considered to be hard water."

The two units used in fish profiles are ppm (yours is 114) and dH (German degrees) and those figures convert to 6.4 dH.

Personally I would not call that hard. According to my water company's tables slightly hard is 5.6 dH/100 ppm to 11.2 dH/200 ppm and your hardness is near the lower end of that range.

Byron · Oct 26, 2017

DanielaRae said:
Honestly I didn't know about cycling your tank until I started researching today. How long do you think I should be cycling the tank before adding fish?

Establishing the bacteria necessary to cycle a new tank, and maintain it after that, can take anywhere from two to eight weeks normally. Many factors can influence this, from temperature to GH to pH to amount of ammonia used. But you need a test kit so pick up the API liquid Master Combo in the store or online, whichever. Once the tank is cycled, periodical tests for pH and nitrates is advisable, and ammonia and nitrite if trouble occurs down the road.

There is a guide to cycling on this forum, in the "Cycle your tank" section.

DanielaRae said:
I'm just going to return the two fish and the snail and have an empty tank til I can pick up my own test kit and get the water cycled. Just for clarification though, you mentioned that being to many fish for the 10 gallon tank? The two mollies and the snail that I have in there now would be to much? Just for clarification...

Good plan. Mollies are not exactly "small" fish, they grow to 3 inches (males) with females 5 inches, some report closer to six inches. And with male/female, or pre-impregnated females, you could have dozens up to hundreds of fry to deal with every month. Mollies need at least a 30-inch tank; a 29g for example would bee minimum. Platy should be in minimum 20g tank. Tiger Barb you seem to have learned about, but they need a group of at least 8-10 in their own 29g, minimum. They are not good community fish anyway. Mollies must have hard water, platy same though can tolerate moderately hard. Barbs are soft water to moderately hard if they were possible here, but just mentioned so you know. Different species have differing requirements, sometimes very demanding, some less so and more adaptable within reason.

Which brings me to the water data.

The total hardness, what we term GH (general hardness) is 114 mg/l. The unit mg/l is the same as ppm (parts per million) that is commonly used in the hobby. The other common unit of dH or dGH (degrees) can be worked out from ppm by dividing by 17.9. Similarly, dGH can be multiplied by 17.9 to get the equivalent ppm (mg/l).

So 114 ppm is 6 dGH. In subjective terms, this is moderately soft on thee border of moderately hard. Mollies will not last more than a few weeks in such soft water, platy not much better. So forget livebearers (mollies, platy, swordtail, guppy, Endler). Aside from tank size (only the guppy and Endler would work in a 10g) the water is not sufficient in mineral.

Soft water species will be fine, and there are more of them to boot. Tank size here means you want small species, many of which we term "nano" fish. While the tank is cycling, you can be researching species. See what you local store(s) stock normally, some species will only be seen periodically, some more often. Research any you see before acquisition, it can save a lot of grief and fish lives. Not all fish will work together, aside from the tank size.

EDIT. essjay posted while I was typing, I didn't mean to overlap. :drinks:

Byron.

DanielaRae · Oct 26, 2017

Byron said:
Establishing the bacteria necessary to cycle a new tank, and maintain it after that, can take anywhere from two to eight weeks normally. Many factors can influence this, from temperature to GH to pH to amount of ammonia used. But you need a test kit so pick up the API liquid Master Combo in the store or online, whichever. Once the tank is cycled, periodical tests for pH and nitrates is advisable, and ammonia and nitrite if trouble occurs down the road.

There is a guide to cycling on this forum, in the "Cycle your tank" section.

Good plan. Mollies are not exactly "small" fish, they grow to 3 inches (males) with females 5 inches, some report closer to six inches. And with male/female, or pre-impregnated females, you could have dozens up to hundreds of fry to deal with every month. Mollies need at least a 30-inch tank; a 29g for example would bee minimum. Platy should be in minimum 20g tank. Tiger Barb you seem to have learned about, but they need a group of at least 8-10 in their own 29g, minimum. They are not good community fish anyway. Mollies must have hard water, platy same though can tolerate moderately hard. Barbs are soft water to moderately hard if they were possible here, but just mentioned so you know. Different species have differing requirements, sometimes very demanding, some less so and more adaptable within reason.

Which brings me to the water data.

The total hardness, what we term GH (general hardness) is 114 mg/l. The unit mg/l is the same as ppm (parts per million) that is commonly used in the hobby. The other common unit of dH or dGH (degrees) can be worked out from ppm by dividing by 17.9. Similarly, dGH can be multiplied by 17.9 to get the equivalent ppm (mg/l).

So 114 ppm is 6 dGH. In subjective terms, this is moderately soft on thee border of moderately hard. Mollies will not last more than a few weeks in such soft water, platy not much better. So forget livebearers (mollies, platy, swordtail, guppy, Endler). Aside from tank size (only the guppy and Endler would work in a 10g) the water is not sufficient in mineral.

Soft water species will be fine, and there are more of them to boot. Tank size here means you want small species, many of which we term "nano" fish. While the tank is cycling, you can be researching species. See what you local store(s) stock normally, some species will only be seen periodically, some more often. Research any you see before acquisition, it can save a lot of grief and fish lives. Not all fish will work together, aside from the tank size.

EDIT. essjay posted while I was typing, I didn't mean to overlap.

Byron.

Wow thanks for all that, super informative. Definitely helps clear stuff up, I never thought about the water hardness affecting what fish you buy. I feel like next time I pick out my fish after the cycling period I'll be more prepared. Unfortunately the orange Molly just died and I doubt the black one can hold on much longer (I can only get to the pet store after a certain time cause I share my husband's car). Crazy since i only got him last night! I feel awful, but I guess this is all a good learning experience. This might be a super dumb question, but the snail that's in there is he any different? Or is he fine in there while the water is cycling? It's hard to tell with them lol

DanielaRae · Oct 26, 2017

essjay said:
The report states
"How hard is your water?
Total hardness is a measure of the concentration of two minerals naturally present in water: calcium and magnesium. High hardness levels cause soap not to foam as easily as it would at lower levels. Hardness levels averaged 114 parts per million or 6.7 grains per gallon which is considered to be hard water."

The two units used in fish profiles are ppm (yours is 114) and dH (German degrees) and those figures convert to 6.4 dH.

Personally I would not call that hard. According to my water company's tables slightly hard is 5.6 dH/100 ppm to 11.2 dH/200 ppm and your hardness is near the lower end of that range.

Thanks for that! I honestly never even considered the water hardness when picking out the fish. It helps though, once I let my tank cycle I'll be able to pick out the right type of fish for it.

Byron · Oct 26, 2017

I am not sure about the snail,if you start adding ammonia to cycle. If you mean a large fancy snail, it might not last.

Essjay · Oct 26, 2017

Always research any fish before you buy. The best site for looking fish up is Seriously Fish - http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/

**At the moment Seriously Fish seems to be having problems with the fish profiles as they contain pictures but no text. Until they sort this out, just paste the url for any profile into Wayback Machine, and that will take you to a page full of text.

Byron · Oct 26, 2017

essjay said:
Always research any fish before you buy. The best site for looking fish up is Seriously Fish - http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/

**At the moment Seriously Fish seems to be having problems with the fish profiles as they contain pictures but no text. Until they sort this out, just paste the url for any profile into Wayback Machine, and that will take you to a page full of text.

Yes, I spotted this the other day and reported it. Didn't know about "wayback," will look into that. I saw that earlier when I clicked your link on the Phantoms and wondered if things were fixed.

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