Safe start or not?

I was wanting to use tetra safe start, in a new tank, unfortunately none of the local shops have any in stock!

However I’ve had my water tested today and the pet shop have said it’s the best he’s seen for a new tank, shall I start to stock my tank or should I use safe start first?

Only change I’ve made recently is adding a small plant on bog wood today, wondering if it’s safe to add fish!

BettaMan2000 said:

I was wanting to use tetra safe start, in a new tank, unfortunately none of the local shops have any in stock!

However I’ve had my water tested today and the pet shop have said it’s the best he’s seen for a new tank, shall I start to stock my tank or should I use safe start first?

Only change I’ve made recently is adding a small plant on big wood today, wondering if it’s safe to add fish!

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Probably not, depending. I'll explain (I hope).

First, to "cycle" the tank you need a source of ammonia, which encourages Nitrosomonas bacteria to appear (they just do) and they "eat" the ammonia, producing nitrite; at this point, Nitrospira bacteria will appear, and they eat the nitrite, producing nitrate. Our test kits will see ammonia rise, then lower to zero, while nitrite rises, then lowers to zero, and nitrate appears. The SafeStart greatly speeds this up and provided the fish load is not beyond what it can handle, all is well.

You mention plants. Plants take up ammonia/ammonium too, and faster than the bacteria, plus they do not produce nitrite. So with sufficient plants that are growing, and some being fast growing (floating plants are ideal for this aspect) you can add a few fish and more gradually without worry. But I would want to know the plant species--can you post a photo? Slow-growing plants are less helpful as their requirement for ammonia (their nitrogen) is very low.

The reason the store said your tank water tested good is because ammonia and nitrite would be zero, assuming you have not been adding some form of ammonia. So in fact the tank may have been running, but the cycle has not even started.

When I know the plant species, I can move ahead. But it would really make things much easier and safer if you could get some floating plants growing.

Byron.

Hi Byron,

Sorry for the late reply, work is crazy busy atm!

Here's a pic of the plant, a few of the leaves have been shredded I think its been in a fish tank before at the petshop.

It's on bogwood but no idea what kind it is:

That is java fern, one of the slower growing plants. I'm not sure that it will use much ammonia should you get fish without cycling first. But if you were to get more plants, especially floating ones, that would be better.

I know that you have said in another thread that you are anxious to get fish as soon as possible because of your child, but a better lesson for a child is that some things cannot be had instantly; that it is important to make sure a home for a pet is suitable rather than make an animal suffer.




There are such things as plastic fish as a temporary measure

True, lets see how we get on!

I would cycle the tank first before adding fish. If/when the fish start dying because the tank was not cycled then that would create heartache and be expensive/hardwork to correct.

I have used safe start, and other cheap biological starters before, but i cannot recommend them. In every single case, i get a reading for ammonia, 0 nitrites and a reading for nitrate. This means the biological starter is great for converting nitrites to nitrates, but lacks the bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite. Every single time the cycle completed in over 2 months, the usual time for cycling if i did not use the product.

I know the products say add it then immediately add fish but it would not be doing a fishless cycle.

My LFS swears by a product called ATM colony, which is expensive but even that takes 2 weeks. Dont forget you will still need an ammonia food source to grow these bacteria if you choose to use the biological starters as well as a good test kit (avoid strips, API is very popular)

If you choose to use a biological starter, try to find one that is not near expiry date and shake it vigourously before using. The bacteria is mostly stuck on the surface in the water. You need to hit the bottle really hard on a surface, especially at the base to loosen all the bacteria off the surface inside

I agree in principle with what has been said since my last post. But it is possible to "cycle" a tank without ammonia by using relatively fast-growing live plants. I only do this method, and have been for many years. As essjay noted, the plant in the photo is Java Fern, a slow growing species. Some floating plants will help you immensely. This avoids any risk of killing plants, snails, bacteria with too much ammonia.

Byron.

Byron said:

it is possible to "cycle" a tank without ammonia by using relatively fast-growing live plants. I only do this method, and have been for many years. Some floating plants will help you immensely.
Byron.

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I completely agree with Byron. The key is having fast growing plants since they need to absorb a lot of nutrients quickly, and most floating plants fit this bill, and you need a lot if it as far as i am aware, to the point of having a fish tank for plants, rather than fish, and that comes with a different approach to tank set up ie, substrate, lighting, ferts, co2 etc. You want to achieve a symbiosis with fish and plants, fish waste gets absorbed by plants. However plants cannot survive on fish waste alone and so eventually you will need fertilisers, co2 and proper lighting.

Dont forget that plants also have preference to hard or soft water so it is important to choose a variety that matches your tap water parameters if you want success in growing it. If it dies you may get a ammonia spike, simply because the plant is not absorbing fish waste

I would just clarify that you do not need to go "high-tech" with mega light, CO2, etc, to make this work. My tanks are all planted, all have good floating plant cover, and I never have used CO2 or special substrates, and my lighting is moderate to low. So don't be discouraged into thinking you need to spend a fortune for all this equipment, you don't. All it takes are some healthy floating plants.

My 180 litre tank has a lot of plants - mainly slow growing ones like java fern, anubias, bolbitis and bucephalandra which are all attached to wood. I also have hornwort draped through another piece of wood and water sprite on the surface (I bought the water sprite after reading a recommendation by Byron). I do not have any fancy lighting; I do not use CO2 in any form; and I use Seachem Flourish in a smaller dose than they say. All these plants are thriving.
A few months ago I forgot to turn my filter back on after a water change. I found out 24 hours later. My ammonia and nitrite levels were both zero. I know that mature tanks do have bacteria everywhere, not just in the filter, but the plants must have played a huge part in keeping my fish safe.

Interesting thanks!