New 110l Tank.. stocking level suggestions.

NickAu said:

I agree, However you may get some argument from the International Betta Congress

Aquarium Salt, The Healthy Preventative v 2.0
https://www.ibcbettas.org/aquarium-salt-the-healthy-preventative-v-2-0/

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This article has considerable inaccurate "data" to substantiate their position, regardless of who may have authored it. The alleged benefits of regular salt are simply not true scientifically.

In addition to my article linked previously, on that same site are a couple of salt articles by Dr. Neale Monks. Some may disagree with me, fine, but you better be well educated in biology before you start arguing with Neale.

This article has considerable inaccurate "data" to substantiate their position, regardless of who may have authored it. The alleged benefits of regular salt are simply not true scientifically.

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I 100% agree Byron.

However it shows just how much BS there is out there regarding salt, I have had this argument with Betta breeders who swear by salt as a preventative, I even had a moderator/betta breeder on another site tell me that I had no idea what I was talking about and that " just because Hoskins or Monks say so don't make it true " when I liked to your article.

I actually quit that forum because of some of the advice the "reference team" was giving. You were also a member and are no longer active there.

Congrats OP to the larger tank, good decision (those are 200l gross )

Looking very good so far. I like the color of the sand and that root is an excellent find.

I second Byron - no to salt, except for medication!

Coming back to the light issue: Thank you for sharing your experience Byron! If OP follows your advice she will be on the save but also expensive site Seems like you have some different and maybe better lights available over there.
I have followed those insights for quite some years and I did not observe the effects you mentioned. Those 10% loss of intensity are real measurements not some made up numbers. That you have to change your lamps every 12 month is just some myth which keeps surviving to fill the pockets of some. Furthermore I have never seen algae in a tank with low light. You get algae when you have too much light and not enough nutrients for your higher plants. With lower light plants will simply grow slower or stop growing if not sufficient at all. As aquaria are complex systems and its hard to control for all factors, maybe something else changed too?

Btw. if you need more light a very effective way is to use reflectors, which will increase the available light by 100%.

hobby5 said:

Congrats OP to the larger tank, good decision (those are 200l gross )

Looking very good so far. I like the color of the sand and that root is an excellent find.

I second Byron - no to salt, except for medication!

Coming back to the light issue: Thank you for sharing your experience Byron! If OP follows your advice she will be on the save but also expensive site Seems like you have some different and maybe better lights available over there.
I have followed those insights for quite some years and I did not observe the effects you mentioned. Those 10% loss of intensity are real measurements not some made up numbers. That you have to change your lamps every 12 month is just some myth which keeps surviving to fill the pockets of some. Furthermore I have never seen algae in a tank with low light. You get algae when you have too much light and not enough nutrients for your higher plants. With lower light plants will simply grow slower or stop growing if not sufficient at all. As aquaria are complex systems and its hard to control for all factors, maybe something else changed too?

Btw. if you need more light a very effective way is to use reflectors, which will increase the available light by 100%.

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Thanks @hobby5 - the measurements for the tank include the lid, so it is only 160litres and not 200l unfortunately

The lights already have reflectors fitted behind them... seems to be quite a well thought out set up for a basic starter tank kit. Am very pleased so far. The sand is play sand! Cant thank Byron enough for that suggestion... that alone has saved me over £20! The Root was a total find and am so pleased with it... it is kind of responsible for the larger tank as it didnt fit in the one I originally planned to buy...

Thanks @Byron and @NickAu re advice on the salt. Only got it as ready several things that stated Platies prefered to have it and it was beneficial to them... but now that I am going to have some Cories too (eventually.. it is going to feel such a long wait while the tank matures before I get them!) then need to make sure the conditions are sutiable for all of them. Good to hear that the Platys perhaps dont need it after all and so wont suffer for the lack of additional salt.

Will get some small Anubis when the shop gets a new batch in and then think I will leave off getting any more plants for a bit whilst I get used to looking after them and the current ones become established. Haven't found any decent floating plants yet.. other than Egeria.. is this worth having as a floater?

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback and advice.

quick question on cycling -

So... as you know I am not adding ammonia at all and have been using my old filter media to kick start my tank. I have been adding a little flaked food to 'feed' the bacteria. I have tested my water today and have the following results. wondered if you could help me interpret what it means re my cycle and what I need to do next.

KH - 10
PH - 7.5
NO2 - 0.4 mg/l (ppm)
NO3- 5 mg/l (ppm)
NH4 - <0.05 mg/l (ppm)

Thanks for any advice.

Qwooks said:

quick question on cycling -

So... as you know I am not adding ammonia at all and have been using my old filter media to kick start my tank. I have been adding a little flaked food to 'feed' the bacteria. I have tested my water today and have the following results. wondered if you could help me interpret what it means re my cycle and what I need to do next.

KH - 10
PH - 7.5
NO2 - 0.4 mg/l (ppm)
NO3- 5 mg/l (ppm)
NH4 - <0.05 mg/l (ppm)

Thanks for any advice.

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You have live plants, so I wouldn't fuss over ammonia, but some fish food won't hurt. You must have quite detailed tests to get numbers in the .0_ range. I would probably see them as zero with my API kits. Except for the nitrate of course. No issues here, this is what I would expect with the plants and the filter bacteria. I would get some floating plants and then you're set to go, but no rush, fiddle with the aquascape if you like.

On the Egeria, yes, this can be floated. It is a quite easy and hardy stem plant, though the species Egeria densa prefers cooler water (it is found in areas of NA) but E. najas is a tropical species. This is frequently called an ammonia sink, as the plant readily takes up a lot of ammonia and is thus recommended for new tanks. If you can't find other more substantial floaters, this should work. If it later begins to fall apart (usually due to the higher temperature) it can be removed.

Byron.

hobby5 said:

Coming back to the light issue: Thank you for sharing your experience Byron! If OP follows your advice she will be on the save but also expensive site Seems like you have some different and maybe better lights available over there.
I have followed those insights for quite some years and I did not observe the effects you mentioned. Those 10% loss of intensity are real measurements not some made up numbers. That you have to change your lamps every 12 month is just some myth which keeps surviving to fill the pockets of some. Furthermore I have never seen algae in a tank with low light. You get algae when you have too much light and not enough nutrients for your higher plants. With lower light plants will simply grow slower or stop growing if not sufficient at all. As aquaria are complex systems and its hard to control for all factors, maybe something else changed too?

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Some of this has to be corrected, though at the risk of getting off track from the original thread.

First, the light intensity. I have not yet found any planted tank source that does not recommend replacement of the fluorescent tubes. Some have data from tests using technical apparatus to measure intensity, and the decrease in intensity during just the first few weeks alone is significant. I rather doubt that all the planted tank authors have shares in the manufacturers of fluorescent lighting.

To the algae. Algae occurs naturally in any water containing nutrients, and whatever the lighting. When we are dealing with a planted tank, the aim is to balance the lighting intensity with the nutrients in order to satisfy the needs of the specific plant species/numbers present. This balance can easily be upset. Higher plants have more specific requirements than algae when it comes to light and nutrients. Light drives photosynthesis (red and blue, with red the more important of the two) and each species of plant has a minimum intensity requirement; without sufficient intensity for the plant species, photosynthesis will be hampered. It may slow or it may cease altogether. The nutrients also factor into this; there has to be a balance to provide what the plants need. Photosynthesis, while driven by light, will only occur according to the balance. As soon as some factor is missing, photosynthesis slows and may even cease, depending.

Algae is always able to take advantage when this occurs. Algae can increase with too much light, or with too little. It will do the same with excess nutrients (beyond what the plants require to balance the light intensity), or with insufficient. In my 20+ years with planted tanks I have seen all of this, and it supports what every reliable source will advise.

Byron.

Thanks
@Byron

I am using the JBL testing kit (got confused before... knew my kit had a name with three letters.. it is this one not the API one). Have attached the test scale charts so you can see the possible readings my kit tests for.. I imagine that my ammonia reading was in fact unreadable as it was on the bottom end of the scale so clearly hadnt registered anything really...


Am going to try a different aquatics shop later in the week so hopefully they will have Anubias and a better choice of floating plants.

with the readings I have at the moment, will it be safe to add fish by the end of the week do you think? (platies, not cories)

I have not added the bio boost yet.. was going to do that in the morning before I go to choose my fish.

have planted the stuff I have for now.. the Amazon Swords don't look too good though.. are getting a fair few brown patches... will wait and see... i split the one big one into two plants so I could hide my filter from the front view... might tweek it some more.. not decided yet.. will know once i get a few more plants.. it isn't properly balanced yet.

On the JBL tests, I've not used these as they are less common here. I can see no reason not to rely on them.

On the swords. Yellowing and dying of older leaves (the outer leaves are the oldest, new growth appears from the centre of the crown of the plant) is common when moved from one environment to another. These plants are also grown emersed by nurseries as it is faster and less expensive than submersed cultivation, so the emersed leaves will die off as new submersed leaves appear. They are also heavy feeders, so I would strongly recommend the Flourish Tabs, one next to each plant, replaced every 2-3 months. A comprehensive liquid like Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is also advisable. So, any or all of these "reasons" may apply here.

As this is your first attempt at a planted tank, I would go slow. Get the plants clearly growing before adding fish. One gains experience, meaning you will learn to observe minor things that can clue you in to issues, but starting out it is best to go slow. Get the aquascape firmed up (more on this momentarily), plants growing (the new tubes and ferts will achieve this), then consider the first fish. Getting those different tubes will make a vast improvement here with the plants. I have used those "purplish" hue tubes myself, and killed off plants. The swords need better light.

On the aquascape, the swords will get large, so I would move them out of the corners a few inches so they have space around them. On another matter, they would be better closer together. When you have two similar objects, be they large plants or chunks of wood, "odd" is better than "even," or it looks contrived or artificial. The sword in the left rear corner is fine, but moved out maybe 3-4 inches from the corner diagonally. Before getting to the second sword, I am wondering if both of these can be divided again? The left plant looks pretty thick, which suggests more than one crown. And the plant at the front right corner certainly seems to have two crowns. The crown is the solid point from which the leaves will all emerge, and roots downward. I can see two distinct crowns at the substrate on this plant. Getting four or maybe five plants will make aquascaping much easier, and they can be placed more naturally. This will enlarge the visual space.

Byron.

The decrease in light output from fluorescent tubes in a low tech set up shouldn't be enough to cause an algae out break, the only excess nutrient that is going to cause algae is ammonia, that is of course providing certain micro nutrients aren't in excess and then inhibiting the uptake of others - which in my time in the hobby I've never seen once, it is more true of terrestrial plants than aquatic ones.

OP -

Given your tank has twin T8's personally I feel that you're going to struggle without some additional source of CO2 - my advice would be to remove the reflectors and introduce floating plants to reduce the intensity or you will struggle with algae, more so on slow growing plant species and in areas of the tank where circulation isn't as good. Alternatively you could try a gluturaldehyde liquid carbon additive such as easy life easy carbo - it is by no means as effective as CO2 injection however and isn't tolerated very well by truly aquatic species such as Valliseneria and Riccia

Plant species I'd recommend:

Anubias
Cryptocoryne's
Echinodorus
Hygrophila polysperma (grows quick and will mop up any excess ammonia)
Aquatic mosses
Pogostemon helferi (my favourite plant, really beautiful when it thrives)

As far as a fertiliser goes, given you have moderate lighting and low nitrates I'd personally use something with a source of N and P, which to my knowledge Flourish Comprehensive (Please correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't have, given you're in the UK - I'd recommend Aqua essentials own range of fertilisers, they do a liquid carbon called neutro CO2, and a fertiliser called neutro plus, both are very good value - far cheaper than other products on the market. Not only that their service is excellent as is their range of plants. It's also worth noting good water circulation is beneficial when keeping plants and will also go towards preventing algae by means of good nutrient distribtion.

One final piece of advise, try an avoid symmetry as it's very unnatural, try to create focal points using the rule of thirds.

@StandbySetting Thanks for the UK tailored advice.. useful to know what is available over here.. I am just waiting for betterT8 tubes to arrive so hopefully they will be enough. Have tweaked the planting in my tank a little.. I am hoping to get some Anubias once they are in stock, and something to float.. then that will be it. Then will just leave the plants to grow and see what works and what doesnt... only additional plant I have not on your list is a Java fern, which i love... so far they all seem to be doing ok apart from the Echinodorus that I have.. I think they might have to go at some point.. although I like the height they have and that they are usefully hiding the filter and heater a little. Will add some fertilizers in a couplen of days once I go to the LFS.... then will just leave everything alone for a few weeks and see how they do... if they start looking sorry for themselves I will post pictures and look for suggestions as to what to try...
It is all a bit of an experiment for now.... I am fully expecting some casualties along the way. (as long as they are not fishy ones... ) My filter has an algae pad which hopefully will be of some use.

As long as my tank isnt too much hassle to look after and that my fish are healthy and happy living there.. then I will be happy... of course I want it to look nice too.. but health of the fish is my number one priority for now.. (once I get them!!) If it all goes wrong I will be just as happy with silk plants .. just realise that If I can get the live ones right then they will be more beneifical for the health of the tank...

BROWN ALGAE!!!!

so... went to bed last night with a nice clean tank.. woke up this morning to one covered in brown algae?!?!

what should I do?? (interestingly I bought a couple more plants yesterday... i noticed one leaf was a little brown after I brought it home, wiped it clean.. maybe this is where the stuff came from )

Should I get some Zebra Nerite Snails?



This is my tank now... still wating for the new tubes to arrive.

Otocinclus will do a better job on plants

By "brown algae" are you referring to the various sized clumps/bits of stuff sitting on the sand in the first photo (post 42)? Or something else? Otos will not eat the clumps of whatever that is. It looks like it is just sitting there, not actually "stuck" to the sand...correct?

"Brown algae" is a common term many use for a couple of very different algae. Diatoms are a brown film-type algae that easily comes off with your fingertips. This is common in new tanks due to the instability in water chemistry. It will (hopefully) disappear after a few weeks. Snails, otos, some loricariids (Farlowella, Bristlenose) will eat it. But never buy a fish just for something like this, unless you really want that species, can provide what it needs (numbers, water parameters, foods) and provided it will not outgrow the tank and cause other issues.

A more serious "brown algae" is a species of brush or beard algae that can appear black, dark brown, dark grey, dark green, sometimes reddish brown. This will not easily come off with your fingertips. I won't get into this because this is not likely to be what you may have at this stage.

As you mentioned snails...the little species are a nice helpmate as they get everywhere eating all organics, breaking them down faster for bacteria and plants. Malaysian Livebearing Snails are perhaps the best. Others are the poind snail and acute bladder snail; the latter two look much alike, and usually arrive on plants. None of these three will eat live plants, only dead organics.

Byron.

Thanks Byron

Yes... the brown clumps are what I have presumed are some type of brown algae.. the smae stuff is on the lants and also stuck to the glass, but it has wiped off easily and have knocked it off the plants/ sand and then caught it in a fish net so the amounts in the tank now are minimal again.

as long as it isnt anything to worry about I will just wipe it off every other day and fish around for the floating bits.

I dont want to put any fish in to deal with it as none of them are ones I plan to stock once the tank is more mature. But a few snails may be manageable as long as they arent breeders!!