Help Reading This Ph And Loss Of Fish After Water Changes

thrujenseyes · Sep 25, 2016

Oh boy..
I just got done filling up my 5 gallon water jug with well water:

No worries though...I came here first before making any more moves.
So thanks for that Steven (everytime I type your name I think of Jim Carrey in Cable Guy and how he says Tthhhhteeeeeven) anyway, thank you and I look forward to whatever else it was that you will come back and add to this!

Byron...
I was trying so hard to wrap my brain around the mathematics of your description of how you arrive at the ppm and such and it wasn't working but that was last night before bed so I'll try with a fresher brain now. I had to google dGH as I thought it was another type of hardness that I'd yet to learn about but it's a measurement? A degree? I'll try to read up on that and see if I can figure it out. Oh and yes aragonite is what I meant.

Mark Z... that's great info about Aquarium Center! I never go to their website because it's so old and outdated and just well...terrible. And it's not mobile friendly. I had no idea they announced new arrivals but that's very cool! Probably something I shouldn't look at until I get my water figured out though...to avoid temptation!

So...I'm following most of everything that's been said (except the mathematics of the hardness readings).

I understand now that I can't keep a higher ph because of my KH which is zero and it's zero because that's what my source water from my well is. And because it has zero buffering capabilities even though I can raise the ph with crushed coral it will continually fall unless I leave something in my tank to keep it steady.....?

I still don't know what water I should be using and which way I will go with future stocking.... Soft or Hard water fish.

Right now I need to keep my remaining endlers happy and healthy...so I will use the RO (maybe add flourish comprehensive) I have left and add crushed coral to my tank.
I bought the little mesh media bags and have one all ready to go into my filter.

Question: I keep my water for water changes in these big 5 gallon jug like you see in this picture. Should I add my crushed coral in a bag to the jug so it's safer going into the tank when I do water changes? Or will it be too concentrated because sometimes the water sits for weeks in there?

Byron · Sep 25, 2016

I understand now that I can't keep a higher ph because of my KH which is zero and it's zero because that's what my source water from my well is. And because it has zero buffering capabilities even though I can raise the ph with crushed coral it will continually fall unless I leave something in my tank to keep it steady.....?

Yes, I think you are comprehending things. The pH in any aquarium will naturally lower due to normal biological processes involving the breakdown of organics. You can maintain it at a certain level by buffering it, which is where the KH comes in. The aragonite will do this, and it lasts months, even years.

Now, as for what water to use, and responding to Steven's post # 120. The water from the mechanism (bullet) is clearly unstable according to the numbers. Therefore, I disagree with Steven, and advise against using any of this water ever. The well water seems stable, and it can be no worse than RO with respect to zero GH/KH and the pH, so I see no problem using the well water with the aragonite to raise the GH/KH/pH. I used to do this with dolomite, and a little goes a long way.

With Endlers, they are not going to mind fairly hard water, so you just need to use the aragonite to get the GH/KH/pH up. The pH will easily rise above 7.0, and with that amount of aragonite it will stay there for months, with water changes. I would use a fair amount, maybe a cup. I used only two tablespoons and it raised the pH in my 90g tank from 6 to 7.4, and as I say the Endlers will be fine with this.

thrujenseyes · Sep 25, 2016

Byron said:
I understand now that I can't keep a higher ph because of my KH which is zero and it's zero because that's what my source water from my well is. And because it has zero buffering capabilities even though I can raise the ph with crushed coral it will continually fall unless I leave something in my tank to keep it steady.....?

Click to expand...

Yes, I think you are comprehending things. The pH in any aquarium will naturally lower due to normal biological processes involving the breakdown of organics. You can maintain it at a certain level by buffering it, which is where the KH comes in. The aragonite will do this, and it lasts months, even years.

Now, as for what water to use, and responding to Steven's post # 120. The water from the mechanism (bullet) is clearly unstable according to the numbers. Therefore, I disagree with Steven, and advise against using any of this water ever. The well water seems stable, and it can be no worse than RO with respect to zero GH/KH and the pH, so I see no problem using the well water with the aragonite to raise the GH/KH/pH. I used to do this with dolomite, and a little goes a long way.

With Endlers, they are not going to mind fairly hard water, so you just need to use the aragonite to get the GH/KH/pH up. The pH will easily rise above 7.0, and with that amount of aragonite it will stay there for months, with water changes. I would use a fair amount, maybe a cup. I used only two tablespoons and it raised the pH in my 90g tank from 6 to 7.4, and as I say the Endlers will be fine with this.

And so comes question number 8,794:
IF I use the well water....
Should I put the Aragonite in the 5 gallon Jug first? Before adding any to the tank ....to make sure the GH/KH/pH has raised to a safe amount for the fish?

And what if (like Steven said) the values of the Well Water are truly super acidic and closer to 3 or 4 than 6? Can I safely raise raise it without fear of it crashing back down because it has zero alkalinity?!

I can easily test a 5 gallon water jug with a cup of Argonite..... should I do this next? Would it be helpful?

I have lost quite a bit of water from evaporation over last two weeks since my water change and know I need another...
should I use RO until I sort this out?

StevenF · Sep 25, 2016

It appears that your tank is entirely stocked with animals that live in coastal marshes or lagoons or river deltas. IN these environments some areas will be fresh water, others hard water, and still other will be brackish water. So they can naturally move to an area and water conditions they prefer. Nerites will live in fresh water but move to brackish water to breed. Amani shrimp are the same. Enders appear to live in the same environment an may breed in fresh water.and can adapt to different water conditions. Although the adaption process should be slow to avoid shocking the fish too much.

http

/care.endlers1.com

So the question is what can we do to make the water safe for your plants and animals with good PH while at the same time keep the GH and KH in a good range.

The first step is to let the water outgas for a few days before using it in the aquarium. Any gases in your tap water or your unprocessed well water will leave. For your unprocessed well water you should leave some out and determine how the GH, KH, and ph change as it outgasses. This one step will have the strongest affect on PH and probably minimal effect on GH and KH.

IF the water has very low or no KH we should also adjust that. KH is a measure of carbonate ions, CO3 in the water. CO3 is the form carbon dioxide takes when it is dissolved in water and it will react with metals in water to form carbonate salts. Calcium carbonate (which is the most dominate salt in crushed coral) is one. The common readily available carbonate is baking soda. Sodium bicarbonate. Both will affect PH and KH although baking soda has the strongest effect and dissolves easily in water. Crushed coral or sea shells is great for maintaining a stable PH inside the aquarium . it will push the KH to 50 ppm or so. However I have read that the ideal KH is 100ppm and I have reason to suspect that a higher KH than what Calcium carbonate can provide is preferred.

So if you decide to use unconditioned well water Let it outgas for a couple of days and then slowly add baking soda until the KH is 100 and the PH is around 7. To determine exactly how much you need gradually add baking soda in 1/15 teaspoons increments to one liter of water. Then count the number of 1/16 teaspoons you added to how many teaspoon you need per liter of water and then multiply that by the number of liters to be added. So for exampleif you find you need eight 1/16 teaspoons you would need 1/2 and if you are adding 8liters to the aquarium you would need to add four 1 teaspoons of baking soda. You will probably find you will need to add a lot less than this example.

For your tap of conditioned well water from the blue bullet your KH is fine but your GH is high. In this case I would mix the water with 50% RIO or distilled water This would give your GH of about 100 and drop the KH some . If desired you could add some baking soda to gt the KH up again to 100 but in this case I don't think that will be necessary.

Ideally we want water with a PH of 7, Gh of 100, and Kh of 100. Like all good thinks don't over do it. Avoid a PH greater than 8 or less than 6.5. Avoid zero KH and avoid going over 100. Definitely keep KH below 200. Try to keep you GH stable at 100 for now. As to your nitrate levels you are always reporting between 5 and 10ppm. Recommendation is 20pppm maximum. I have found that in my own small tank 0 ppm can cause phosphates to increase. So in my experience maintaining a nitrate level of 5 to 10ppm is ideal. If possible put a small amount of crushed coral in the tank filter to help compensate for plants consuming Calcium and magnesium in the water.

Now tha you have the water all we need to do is to add it to the aquarium without shocking the fish. i think the best approach to doing this is to start small say a 10% water change once or twice a week. Once the GH and KH of the tank match or are close to the readings for the water you are adding. go to 20%. if the GH and kh still match go to 30%. Most people do 30 to 50% once per week.

As to the excel you own you now have a great alternative to to the potentially toxic Excel. Add a SMALL amount of unconditioned well water SLOWLY to you tank. The low PH is probably caused by CO2 dissolved in the water (carbonic acid) which plants love. Using excel or unconditioned well water for CO2 is totally optional for you. I would hoverer prefer you not use them until you have stabilized your water changes and your tank has stabilized. Same goes for Flourish Comprehensive. It is now optional. feel free to add it your plants are not growing as well as you like. The fact that you frequently week your tank or trim the plants is a good thing. Any cuttings you throw away will take with them all the nitrogen and minerals they absorbed. That help keep your water chemistry in balance.

I would still look into getting a full water analysis done to rule out any toxic elements (such as mercury and lead)or man made chemicals. Long term it is probably a good idea to get a small RO system installed for drinking water. and food preparation.

thrujenseyes · Sep 25, 2016

StevenF said:
It appears that your tank is entirely stocked with animals that live in coastal marshes or lagoons or river deltas. IN these environments some areas will be fresh water, others hard water, and still other will be brackish water. So they can naturally move to an area and water conditions they prefer. Nerites will live in fresh water but move to brackish water to breed. Amani shrimp are the same. Enders appear to live in the same environment an may breed in fresh water.and can adapt to different water conditions. Although the adaption process should be slow to avoid shocking the fish too much.

http/care.endlers1.com

Oh, this is nice to hear!

So the question is what can we do to make the water safe for your plants and animals with good PH while at the same time keep the GH and KH in a good range.

The first step is to let the water outgas for a few days before using it in the aquarium. Any gases in your tap water or your unprocessed well water will leave. For your unprocessed well water you should leave some out and determine how the GH, KH, and ph change as it outgasses. This one step will have the strongest affect on PH and probably minimal effect on GH and KH.

I fill the 5 gallon water jug and let that sit. But I do cover it with tin foil so nothing can contaminate it becuase I store it in the garage and don't use the water for at least a week usually. Is that not proper to "outgas" am I trapping gasses in there by doing this? Do I need to let the water sit open in a bucket as opposed to what I'm doing?

IF the water has very low or no KH we should also adjust that. KH is a measure of carbonate ions, CO3 in the water. CO3 is the form carbon dioxide takes when it is dissolved in water and it will react with metals in water to form carbonate salts. Calcium carbonate (which is the most dominate salt in crushed coral) is one. The common readily available carbonate is baking soda. Sodium bicarbonate. Both will affect PH and KH although baking soda has the strongest effect and dissolves easily in water. Crushed coral or sea shells is great for maintaining a stable PH inside the aquarium . it will push the KH to 50 ppm or so. However I have read that the ideal KH is 100ppm and I have reason to suspect that a higher KH than what Calcium carbonate can provide is preferred.

So if you decide to use unconditioned well water Let it outgas for a couple of days and then slowly add baking soda until the KH is 100 and the PH is around 7. To determine exactly how much you need gradually add baking soda in 1/15 teaspoons increments to one liter of water. Then count the number of 1/16 teaspoons you added to how many teaspoon you need per liter of water and then multiply that by the number of liters to be added. So for exampleif you find you need eight 1/16 teaspoons you would need 1/2 and if you are adding 8liters to the aquarium you would need to add four 1 teaspoons of baking soda. You will probably find you will need to add a lot less than this example.

For your tap of conditioned well water from the blue bullet your KH is fine but your GH is high. In this case I would mix the water with 50% RIO or distilled water This would give your GH of about 100 and drop the KH some . If desired you could add some baking soda to gt the KH up again to 100 but in this case I don't think that will be necessary.

I like this idea best but I am nervous as to what is really in that bullet...even thought they swore just crushed coral. But I think my well might scare me more as anything can leach down into that and I am in the woods but surrounded by farmlands which get sprayed and such.
So...which is the lesser evil? I won't know until I get a detailed test done....which I will evenutally do.

Ideally we want water with a PH of 7, Gh of 100, and Kh of 100. Like all good thinks don't over do it. Avoid a PH greater than 8 or less than 6.5. Avoid zero KH and avoid going over 100. Definitely keep KH below 200. Try to keep you GH stable at 100 for now. As to your nitrate levels you are always reporting between 5 and 10ppm. Recommendation is 20pppm maximum. I have found that in my own small tank 0 ppm can cause phosphates to increase. So in my experience maintaining a nitrate level of 5 to 10ppm is ideal. If possible put a small amount of crushed coral in the tank filter to help compensate for plants consuming Calcium and magnesium in the water.

This is perfect information for me to have. A Goal! I like having those numbers in front of me and something to move towards

Now tha you have the water all we need to do is to add it to the aquarium without shocking the fish. i think the best approach to doing this is to start small say a 10% water change once or twice a week. Once the GH and KH of the tank match or are close to the readings for the water you are adding. go to 20%. if the GH and kh still match go to 30%. Most people do 30 to 50% once per week.

I agree that sounds perfect.

As to the excel you own you now have a great alternative to to the potentially toxic Excel. Add a SMALL amount of unconditioned well water SLOWLY to you tank. The low PH is probably caused by CO2 dissolved in the water (carbonic acid) which plants love. Using excel or unconditioned well water for CO2 is totally optional for you. I would hoverer prefer you not use them until you have stabilized your water changes and your tank has stabilized. Same goes for Flourish Comprehensive. It is now optional. feel free to add it your plants are not growing as well as you like. The fact that you frequently week your tank or trim the plants is a good thing. Any cuttings you throw away will take with them all the nitrogen and minerals they absorbed. That help keep your water chemistry in balance.

Uh oh...I usually take the trimmings and just stick them back into the tank in the substrate and they regrow into full awesome plants (it only takes a few weeks). Should I be throwing away the clippings?! Not that I have much substrate room left now anyway. But was that a wrong thing to do?!

I would still look into getting a full water analysis done to rule out any toxic elements (such as mercury and lead)or man made chemicals. Long term it is probably a good idea to get a small RO system installed for drinking water. and food preparation.

We (and dogs) don't drink or cook with our water. We use bottled (primo to be exact....which tests perfectly). And we do this because of all of the cancer in the area which is supposedly caused by the spraying of the crops and the wells not being deep enough.
Sadly I hadn't been concerned for my fish until they started dropping after water changes.

My last question (for the next five minutes) is this:
If I do mix my treated tap with RO. Do I treat my tap with Prime? And am I just treating the amount of the waterchange that is tap water?
Say I do 1/2 gallon RO and a 1/2 gallon Tap. Am I only treating the 1/2 gallon?

StevenF · Sep 25, 2016

I fill the 5 gallon water jug and let that sit. But I do cover it with tin foil so nothing can contaminate it becuase I store it in the garage and don't use the water for at least a week usually. Is that not proper to "outgas" am I trapping gasses in there by doing this? Do I need to let the water sit open in a bucket as opposed to what I'm doing?

If it is a very loose fit it shouldn't slow the outgassing. The water might outgas faster if you have an airstone in the water and aerate it. The Oxygen might push out to acidic gas.

I like this idea best but I am nervous as to what is really in that bullet...even thought they swore just crushed coral. But I think my well might scare me more as anything can leach down into that and I am in the woods but surrounded by farmlands which get sprayed and such.
So...which is the lesser evil? I won't know until I get a detailed test done....which I will evenutally do.

Yes I undrestand those doubts. You might want to contact the manufacture and get the manual and whatever information they provide to ythe customer. it might alleviate those fears. however everything I am seeing in your GH, KH, and PH test results tells me that it is simply passing all the well water through the crushed coral. And the chlorine is commonly used to disinfect water

Uh oh...I usually take the trimmings and just stick them back into the tank in the substrate and they regrow into full awesome plants (it only takes a few weeks). Should I be throwing away the clippings?! Not that I have much substrate room left now anyway. But was that a wrong thing to do?!

If you want more plants there is nothing wrong with replanting the cuttings. As long as the plants are alive they will not release the nutrients they scavanged from the water . If you have more plants than you want then throw them out or give them to someone else. There is nothing wrong with any of those options.

My last question (for the next five minutes) is this:
If I do mix my treated tap with RO. Do I treat my tap with Prime? And am I just treating the amount of the waterchange that is tap water?
Say I do 1/2 gallon RO and a 1/2 gallon Tap. Am I only treating the 1/2 gallon?

the safe option is to continue to use it. It won't hurt. Treating the tap water amount only seems OK to me. However I never saw the chlorine test on my strips register anything. I haven't used water conditioner in some time because of that. You could try gradually reducing the amount you use. if you see issues go back to your regular dose. but you might want to stabilize your aquarium first.

The primary chlorine removing agent used in prime and many other conditioners is Baking Soda it reacts with chlorine and locks it up as regular sodium chloride (table salt). Calcium carbonate will also do the same thing. Also plants Need chlorine and they will get it from sodium chloride or calcium chloride or any other chloride in the water. Prime also contains items to deactivate ammonia and lock up heavy metals. Their abilitiy to do that is probably limited by the very small amount added to the water. Besides your testing shows no ammonia and your plants will also absorb ammonia.

A lab test of your well water should tell you if you have heavy metals in your well water.

thrujenseyes · Sep 26, 2016

StevenF said:
I fill the 5 gallon water jug and let that sit. But I do cover it with tin foil so nothing can contaminate it becuase I store it in the garage and don't use the water for at least a week usually. Is that not proper to "outgas" am I trapping gasses in there by doing this? Do I need to let the water sit open in a bucket as opposed to what I'm doing?

Click to expand...

If it is a very loose fit it shouldn't slow the outgassing. The water might outgas faster if you have an airstone in the water and aerate it. The Oxygen might push out to acidic gas.

I like this idea best but I am nervous as to what is really in that bullet...even thought they swore just crushed coral. But I think my well might scare me more as anything can leach down into that and I am in the woods but surrounded by farmlands which get sprayed and such.
So...which is the lesser evil? I won't know until I get a detailed test done....which I will evenutally do.

Yes I undrestand those doubts. You might want to contact the manufacture and get the manual and whatever information they provide to ythe customer. it might alleviate those fears. however everything I am seeing in your GH, KH, and PH test results tells me that it is simply passing all the well water through the crushed coral. And the chlorine is commonly used to disinfect water

Uh oh...I usually take the trimmings and just stick them back into the tank in the substrate and they regrow into full awesome plants (it only takes a few weeks). Should I be throwing away the clippings?! Not that I have much substrate room left now anyway. But was that a wrong thing to do?!

If you want more plants there is nothing wrong with replanting the cuttings. As long as the plants are alive they will not release the nutrients they scavanged from the water . If you have more plants than you want then throw them out or give them to someone else. There is nothing wrong with any of those options.

My last question (for the next five minutes) is this:
If I do mix my treated tap with RO. Do I treat my tap with Prime? And am I just treating the amount of the waterchange that is tap water?
Say I do 1/2 gallon RO and a 1/2 gallon Tap. Am I only treating the 1/2 gallon?

the safe option is to continue to use it. It won't hurt. Treating the tap water amount only seems OK to me. However I never saw the chlorine test on my strips register anything. I haven't used water conditioner in some time because of that. You could try gradually reducing the amount you use. if you see issues go back to your regular dose. but you might want to stabilize your aquarium first.

The primary chlorine removing agent used in prime and many other conditioners is Baking Soda it reacts with chlorine and locks it up as regular sodium chloride (table salt). Calcium carbonate will also do the same thing. Also plants Need chlorine and they will get it from sodium chloride or calcium chloride or any other chloride in the water. Prime also contains items to deactivate ammonia and lock up heavy metals. Their abilitiy to do that is probably limited by the very small amount added to the water. Besides your testing shows no ammonia and your plants will also absorb ammonia.

A lab test of your well water should tell you if you have heavy metals in your well water.

Today is water change day and I feel like I'm as prepared as I can be.

I have my RO and my Tap that's been sitting out (which I will treat with Prime as suggested but will reduce and beg off over time as I do not get a chlorine or ammonia reading).
I will mix and test and try to make sure it's as close to my tank parameters as possible.

After all is settled I will come back with my readings and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all of this amazing information, it's been such a help!!!!

*Oh and Steven I have a totally off topic question that if you answer you can do so where I actually posted it
http

/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/442720-this-may-be-a-silly-question/
I ask you because you always answer perfectly and use the quotes like a charm....and I just can't figure it out.*

thrujenseyes · Sep 26, 2016

StevenF said:
My last question (for the next five minutes) is this:
If I do mix my treated tap with RO. Do I treat my tap with Prime? And am I just treating the amount of the waterchange that is tap water?
Say I do 1/2 gallon RO and a 1/2 gallon Tap. Am I only treating the 1/2 gallon?

Click to expand...

the safe option is to continue to use it. It won't hurt. Treating the tap water amount only seems OK to me. However I never saw the chlorine test on my strips register anything. I haven't used water conditioner in some time because of that. You could try gradually reducing the amount you use. if you see issues go back to your regular dose. but you might want to stabilize your aquarium first.

The primary chlorine removing agent used in prime and many other conditioners is Baking Soda it reacts with chlorine and locks it up as regular sodium chloride (table salt). Calcium carbonate will also do the same thing. Also plants Need chlorine and they will get it from sodium chloride or calcium chloride or any other chloride in the water. Prime also contains items to deactivate ammonia and lock up heavy metals. Their abilitiy to do that is probably limited by the very small amount added to the water. Besides your testing shows no ammonia and your plants will also absorb ammonia.

A lab test of your well water should tell you if you have heavy metals in your well water.

Ok...I did my water change about 2 and a half hours ago and I must say I'm pretty excited about what I came up with:

I mixed 1 Gallon of RO with 1 Gallon of Tap that sat out over night and gave that a good fast stirr and also added .1ml Prime (correct dosage fr 1 gallon).

This mixture was almost the exact numbers as my tank water only difference being a tad higher KH in the mixed water.

Mixed RO & Tap
PH: 6.5 (same as tank)
KH: 0-25 (tank 0)
chlorine: 0 (same in tank)
GH: 75 (same in tank)
nitrites: 0 (same in tank)
nitrates: 10 (same in tank)

Now comes the exciting part....my inhabitants did really well. No one was stressed and my amano didn't go beserk like usual.
Everyone kept their normal energy.

This brings me to my next theory (going back a few posts when I was concerned that my amano was a murderer).

We now know that I was shocking my fish during a water change because my tap and tank were quite different (hence now diluting tap with RO).
If my fish were shocked my Amano could easily catch them and eat them. Again my amano is double in size as my tiny endlers.

I did a lot of reading about whether or not this can happen and may people say that an amano will not actually kill but will definitely eat a dead or even dying body.
BBBUUUTTT I found quite a few people that said if their fish were in shock after a water change their amano could catch and kill (and some have witnessed this happening)....and these people (like me) swear that it's an amano and not another species.

So, I think that I was definitely hurting my poor fish (if not killing them) with water changes. Sometimes maybe they died because of it and my always hungry and very greedy amano was there to clean up. But maybe...just maybe...my amano didn't want to wait for their death and saw an opportunity if they were in shock and went for the kill?

Either way I'm hoping that now I've learned to get my water similar to the tank before water changing that I will avoid shocks and in turn will avoid deaths.

Oh and I added a litte media bag of crushed coral to my filter.

thrujenseyes · Sep 29, 2016

So it's been three days since the "mixed" water change and all still well (knock wood).
I tested (tetra 6 in 1 test strips) water just to see if parameters have changed ...
Ph: 6.5 (although API test kit reads 7.6)
Are they always THIS different?
Kh: up a tad to 20
Chlorine: still 0
Gh: still 75
Nitrites: still 0
Nitrates: still 10
I also tested ammonia with API and it read 0.
It seems my water mixture was a great solution to all of my issues. Still hoping to see my kh and gh come up a little with the help of the crushed coral I added but I'm assuming that can take a little time?

StevenF · Sep 29, 2016

I tested (tetra 6 in 1 test strips) water just to see if parameters have changed ...
Ph: 6.5 (although API test kit reads 7.6)
Are they always THIS different?

I have been comparing the tetra strips to an electric PH meter ( a much more accurate but slower and more expensive way of reading PH). They are reasonably accurate. However the accuracy is strongly dependent on how well a person reads the color of the liquid and the colors on the chart. The lighting of the room can strongly affect the color comparison. For best results compare the colors next to a window with indirect outdoor light. Light bulbs (any type) can induce color shift that can result in a bad color match.

Using indirect outdoor light my reading is typically within 0.4 of the electric meter. However when I made the color comparison using LED light the reading was off by 0.7.

I don't have the API kit so I have no data comparing it to the meter.

Still hoping to see my kh and gh come up a little with the help of the crushed coral I added but I'm assuming that can take a little time?

The crushed coral should help keep it stable. However the PH it settles down at will depend on the mineral composition of the water. It might not settle down at exactly 7. It might be a little higher or lower. And it might already have stabilized at 6.5. Or it might take a little longer. As long as it stays above 6 we are OK.

thrujenseyes · Sep 30, 2016

StevenF said:
Using indirect outdoor light my reading is typically within 0.4 of the electric meter. However when I made the color comparison using LED light the reading was off by 0.7.

this is exactly how I read my results "indirect outdoor light".

I've always read that the API is the most accurate out there and that the Tetra 6 in 1 strips are also very accurate except for the PH.

I'm not sure what is correct. If Tetra is reading 6.5 and API is reading 7.6 (a large difference) which do you think is more correct? As someone who is trying to get specific results and monitor them super closely.

I also wanted to ask you Steven if you've seen my post prior to the one you responded to?
I believe I have a pretty good theory on my Amano shrimp!

thrujenseyes said:
This brings me to my next theory (going back a few posts when I was concerned that my amano was a murderer).

We now know that I was shocking my fish during a water change because my tap and tank were quite different (hence now diluting tap with RO).
If my fish were shocked my Amano could easily catch them and eat them. Again my amano is double in size as my tiny endlers.

I did a lot of reading about whether or not this can happen and may people say that an amano will not actually kill but will definitely eat a dead or even dying body.
BBBUUUTTT I found quite a few people that said if their fish were in shock after a water change their amano could catch and kill (and some have witnessed this happening)....and these people (like me) swear that it's an amano and not another species.

So, I think that I was definitely hurting my poor fish (if not killing them) with water changes. Sometimes maybe they died because of it and my always hungry and very greedy amano was there to clean up. But maybe...just maybe...my amano didn't want to wait for their death and saw an opportunity if they were in shock and went for the kill?

and omg...I think I did the quote thing right! yay

StevenF · Oct 1, 2016

I also wanted to ask you Steven if you've seen my post prior to the one you responded to?
I believe I have a pretty good theory on my Amano shrimp!

The other explanation I have seen for this behavior is that the males are looking for the female releasing pheromones into the water. I believe both explanations are correct. I have seen this behavior in my tank. but never associated with bad water parameters. Since you only have one ammano in your tank we can rule out the pheromone explanation in your case.

Thanks for posting this observation. it never occurred to me that the shrimp could be simply trying to get away from bad water.

I've always read that the API is the most accurate out there and that the Tetra 6 in 1 strips are also very accurate except for the PH.

I'm not sure what is correct. If Tetra is reading 6.5 and API is reading 7.6 (a large difference) which do you think is more correct?

the tetra strips color chart has reference colors for 6.2,6.8,7.2,7.8,and 8.4. Your reading will be most accurate when the PH of the aquarium matches one of the colored squares on the reference chart. The accuracy degrades when you are between reference colors.

Another factor in reading accuracy is your perception of color. Due to variations in genetics and how your eye develops when you were young, EACH person will perceive colors slightly differently. The difference is only noticeable when one person is colorblind.

I think you are seeing the variation due to your eyes own unique color sensitivity. It is partially for this reason that I have been slowly acquiring electric meters which present a number rather than requiring you to compare colors. Meters are inherently more accurate and have higher resolution that tests using color reference charts.

My personal comparisons of Hanna PH meter with the tetra strips tells me you PH is likely closer to 6.8 or maybe 7. than it is at 6.5. The same color perception issue is also probably affecting the reading of the API test strips. A PH of 7 is about mid way between results of the two tests. The only way to know for sure is to get a PH meter and learn how to use it correctly and do a comparison at the same time with the same water sample.

thrujenseyes · Oct 2, 2016

StevenF said:
Thanks for posting this observation. it never occurred to me that the shrimp could be simply trying to get away from bad water.

That actually was not my therory at all but I suppose it could be another in the long line of crazy murderous amano shrimp.

I was theroizing that I was shocking my fish with my water changes leaving them vulnerable to my super hungry shrimp. People have said they've witnessed their amano catching a sick and or dying fish (if small enough ...which mine are).

StevenF said:
My personal comparisons of Hanna PH meter with the tetra strips tells me you PH is likely closer to 6.8 or maybe 7. than it is at 6.5. The same color perception issue is also probably affecting the reading of the API test strips. A PH of 7 is about mid way between results of the two tests. The only way to know for sure is to get a PH meter and learn how to use it correctly and do a comparison at the same time with the same water sample.

Well crap! So I feel like all of these tests (hundreds) in the last year have all been much more usless than I'd hoped.

My tetra test strips never seem to be right on the color but in between for the PH which I read as between 6.2 and 6.8.
But my API seemed to be right on the button with the color for PH which I read as 7.6

....and from your experience you seem to think I may be in the middle of them both?!? Oh my!

And now (completely different issue) my plants, which are still growing like weeds, are getting that black fuzzy algae on them.
This use to happen a lot until I started using the Flourish Excel (which totally wiped out any and all forms of algae in my tank).
But I havne't used that since all of my water issues and now my plants are going back to getting this dark fuzz.

Is it harmful? Should I do anything about it? I still have my Flourish Excel and I also now have Flourish Comprehensive (as per your suggestion Steven) but I've been trying not to dose anything until my water is more stable.

thrujenseyes · Oct 3, 2016

StevenF said:
My personal comparisons of Hanna PH meter with the tetra strips tells me you PH is likely closer to 6.8 or maybe 7. than it is at 6.5. The same color perception issue is also probably affecting the reading of the API test strips. A PH of 7 is about mid way between results of the two tests. The only way to know for sure is to get a PH meter and learn how to use it correctly and do a comparison at the same time with the same water sample.

I'm fairly certain my ph is rising. I just tested again tonight and on the tetra test strip it definitely seems to be between the 6.8 - 7.2

and API was definitely 7.6 on regular range so I tested high range and it seems to be 7.8 exactly.

Should I remove the little media bag of crushed coral I added one week ago (9-26)?
It's about 1/8 cup maybe a little more.

All of my other numbers are pretty much the same except the GH which seems to now be between 75-150 (it was 75).

So right now I'm
PH= ?! Tetra reads between 6.8-7.2 API reads 7.8
KH= between 0-40
Chlorine = 0
GH = between 75-150
nitrite = 0
nitrate = between 0-20

StevenF · Oct 3, 2016

are getting that black fuzzy algae on them.
This use to happen a lot until I started using the Flourish Excel (which totally wiped out any and all forms of algae in my tank).
But I havne't used that since all of my water issues and now my plants are going back to getting this dark fuzz.

Is it harmful? Should I do anything about it?

Normal best maintenance recommendations is to do a water change once a week of about 30 to 50% and to keep the water chemistry stable. Due to your acidic water we skipped a water change and then only did a alight water change. So in order to save your fish we have moved away from common practice. The consequence of that is organics might be building up and algae loves organics. and we haven't yet stabilized the water chemistry. It shouldn't be harmful in the short term. But after several months it could be.

I'm fairly certain my ph is rising. I just tested again tonight and on the tetra test strip it definitely seems to be between the 6.8 - 7.2

and API was definitely 7.6 on regular range so I tested high range and it seems to be 7.8 exactly.

A rising PH is not unusual. As plants absorb some nutrients, others may be left behind an that can cause the PH to rise. The rise you are seeing is not of a concern yet. We are still below 8.

Should I remove the little media bag of crushed coral I added one week ago (9-26)?
It's about 1/8 cup maybe a little more.

No leave it in. There is no reason to remove it. It will not push the PH above 8. Other elements in the water such as potassium and sodium can. And they don't come from the coral.

Overall I think your aquarium is telling you to do another water change. I would advise doing another larger water change and push the Kh up more.

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