Two Fish Down Day 3 Of Cycle

Hi i winder if anyone could offer some advice ive kept tropical fish before and have just bought a new 64 ltr tank recently. I set it up and let it run with Filter and heater etc and left it running for a few days, I added 4 Zebra Danios to cycle the tank Day one water results were

Ph - 7.5
Ammonia - 0
NitrAte - 0
NitrIte - 0

Day two was also similar - Day three i came downstairs to two danios dead at the bottom of the tank i tested water again and got the following results


Ammonia - 0
nitrate - 50
Nitrite - 1.6

I removed the dead fish and did a 50% water change is it right for the Nitate and nitrite to be so high this early in?

I have used dechlorinator in the tap water and i am using a liquid water test not the strips - if some one could point me in the right direction that would be great.

Just another update i did another water test the following day and the results were the same i have also now lost a third danio i have done another 20% water change today.

From the info provided, your fish are dying from nitrite poisoning for sure. While we aim for 0 nitrite readings, anything higher than 0.25mg/l is considered an emergency, nitrite prevents fish from getting oxygen into the blood stream.
 
While your initial 50% water change after two deaths helped, it would have only reduced the nitrite level by ~50% at that moment in time, still leaving ~0.8mg/l and likely rising in a "fish in cyling" situation which is still very serious.
 
You need to basically change ~95% of the water ASAP for this last remaining danio, to get nitrite levels <0.25mg/l.
 
You will need to be ready to do 50-75% water changes several times a week, quite possibly for 3 months, until your tank/filter are cycled. This is why "fish in cycling" is such a bad idea, lots of stress on you and the fish, lots of hard work by you keeping the water safe for them.

Thanks for you quick response

I have just done a 90% water change now - would you recomend i keep testing te water daily and continue daily water changes ?

How will i know when my tank is fully cycled and will it be ok keeping this one danio in the tank.?

In a "fish in cycle," its always best to try and test the water daily, enabling you to respond quicker to dangerous levels of ammonia or nitrite.
 
Danios are social fish and should ideally be kept in 6+ numbers. However, adding five new ones now will almost certainly mean daily 50% water changes minimum. If you only bought a few new ones, they would likely be aggressive to each other. You would be far better returning or rehoming the remaining danio and then "fishless cycle" the tank/filter for ~2 months.
 
But besides your fish in cyling, you do have another issue here. You have ended up with one of the most hyperactive fish kept in the hobby, so despite their ~5cm adult size, they really need a relatively big tank, as in 90cm long minimum but I'd prefer to see them in nothing smaller than a 120cm tank.
 
Zebra Danios are "temperate," not "tropical" fish, the only time they might need a heater in their tank is to ensure the water does not drop below 18C. They like some current, in fact if you could have this current firing along the water surface, the danio will love it and at the same time the rippling will help ensure there is enough oxygen for the fish and the (hopefully) growing bacterial colony.
 
Judging when your tank is cycled with just one fish is going to be tricky to call. I would want at least 7 consecutive days of 0 ammonia and nitrite readings. But even then your tank will only be cycled (or have enough bacteria) for that one fish, as soon as you add a second one the bacteria will be playing catchup again.

I must say that there is no way I believe the results that are posted above as being real or accurate. They are not possible.
 
How can there be no ammonia readings yet there be a nitrite reading. The proper stocking for that tank to prevent ammonia from quickly climbing to a fatal level long before nitrite gets to be a concern is one, maybe two zebra danios. 4 should make testable ammonia really fast. Where was it??? In two days 4 danios should have made enough ammonia to read at over 1 ppm for sure, perhaps 2 or 3 on an API kit. And dead fish make more ammonia then live ones. Where is the ammonia?
 
If nitrite killed the 1st 2 danios, the others would have been gasping at the surface, I saw nothing re this. Besides, 1.6 ppm of nitrite for under 24 hours should not kill healthy zebra danios. But an API kit shows 1 ppm or 2 ppm colors for nitrite and directs "The closest match indicates the ppm (mg/l) of nitrite in the water sample." Its either 1 or 2 ppm, so why is 1.6 ppm reported?
 
Explain from where any nitrite or 50 ppm of nitrate could have come in the absence of any ammonia If there is actually nitrite present, it would mess up a nitrate test anyhow. Given how bad this kit is, I distrust those results completely.
 
I can not say what is going on here except that i know it is not possible as described. Something else may have killed the fish but it had nothing to do with cycling for sure.
 
You need to report a ton more info for anybody to make sense of what might be going on in your tank.
 
Info your tap water params (temp and pH for sure), your brand of dechlor, info on any other additives used. Tank temps and pH. What did you feed? Details of how your performed your ammonia tests especially buy also the ones for nitrite and nitrate. And after this info more may be needed to clarify the situation further.

I think what i will do is add another 5 danios and stick with the daily water changes as i don't mind doing that as its a 64 ltr tank so it doesn't take long . I have a option on my filter to add bubbles to skim across the top of the tank so i will turn that on for the danios. i don't want to have to play catch up by cycling with just the one.

I have done this before but last time it was a much bigger tank so i presume its harder to maintain the water in a smaller tank?

TwoTankAmin said:

I must say that there is no way I believe the results that are posted above as being real or accurate. They are not possible.
 
How can there be no ammonia readings yet there be a nitrite reading. The proper stocking for that tank to prevent ammonia from quickly climbing to a fatal level long before nitrite gets to be a concern is one, maybe two zebra danios. 4 should make testable ammonia really fast. Where was it??? In two days 4 danios should have made enough ammonia to read at over 1 ppm for sure, perhaps 2 or 3 on an API kit. And dead fish make more ammonia then live ones. Where is the ammonia?
 
If nitrite killed the 1st 2 danios, the others would have been gasping at the surface, I saw nothing re this. Besides, 1.6 ppm of nitrite for under 24 hours should not kill healthy zebra danios. But an API kit shows 1 ppm or 2 ppm colors for nitrite and directs "The closest match indicates the ppm (mg/l) of nitrite in the water sample." Its either 1 or 2 ppm, so why is 1.6 ppm reported?
 
Explain from where any nitrite or 50 ppm of nitrate could have come in the absence of any ammonia If there is actually nitrite present, it would mess up a nitrate test anyhow. Given how bad this kit is, I distrust those results completely.
 
I can not say what is going on here except that i know it is not possible as described. Something else may have killed the fish but it had nothing to do with cycling for sure.
 
You need to report a ton more info for anybody to make sense of what might be going on in your tank.
 
Info your tap water params (temp and pH for sure), your brand of dechlor, info on any other additives used. Tank temps and pH. What did you feed? Details of how your performed your ammonia tests especially buy also the ones for nitrite and nitrate. And after this info more may be needed to clarify the situation further.

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HI - this is what has confused me the signs of no ammonia

the ph of my tap water is 7.5
the dechlorinator i use is interpet bio active tap safe
the test kit i have is Nutrafin Test. it tests amonnia, ph, nitrite and nitrate
i have not seen Ammonia show above 0 when testing.
Tank temp is 75%f
i fed flake food tiny amount

5 zebra danios is too many to cycle your tank (about 16 US gals.). Please do not do this, use fewer fish. Doing daily water changes will make your cycle take longer, not go faster. And what you are basically saying is "I will put in too many fish and make too much ammonia and then I will do lots of water changes to correct this. Just put in fewer fish and you get the same result without all the rest.
 
You really should be doing a fishless cycle. If you are in a rush go out and get Dr. Tim's One and only or Tetra Safe Start. Find local fish keepers or stores willing to donate filter media or substrate from an established tank. If you are in a hurry, the absolutely slowest way one can cycle a tank is to do so with fish.
 
Does your ammonia test kit require the addition of three different reagents? If yes, how long did it take from start to finish for you to complete an ammonia test?
 
Since, you know you should have had an ammonia reading and yet you got none, how can you conclude that the test kit is accurate and/or that you performed the testing correctly? One or both of these is likely the cause of no ammonia reading.
 
I am not real familiar with Hagen test kits as I have never used them. However, from reading the directions for these kits, I doubt I would buy them. It isn't so much their kits as it is their advice. It points to buying and adding Cycle way to often. Nor do I agree with the levels at which they claim harm happens and whether action or no action may be needed. Usually the action is add more Cycle.
 
I have seen lab research which indicates the nitrite oxidizers in Cycle are the wrong ones. The research showed, in the end, they were not present in tanks where they had been added but the actual desired ones were. The nitrite oxidizers in Cycle are appropriate for waste water treatment where there are much higher levels of ammonia and nitrite. They are nitrobacter and not nitrospira.

Don't worry i wont add five if thats not recommended.
 
I am not saying my test kit is accurate as i don't believe it is with the results i am getting. The ammonia test is done like this 
 
1.take a sample of water 5ml 
2. add 6 drops of reagent insert cap on test tube shake well to mix
3. Immediately match the colour to the closest colour on the chart 
 
This is what the manual says that came with the kit. i literally took around 5mins to complete - even leaving the water to stand for 10 mins gives no result and just to make sure i am not going mad i have just done it again.
 
I do have some Interpet Filter start that came with the tank could i use that? - It did say to add 2 drops when i first add the fish in and add two drops every other day for 7 days?
 
So would it be ok just to continue with the 1 danio i have left ? if yes what steps should i take. the danio i have left does look like its breathing rapidly..
 
Again thanks for your in depth advice. 

I am not really sure what killed the fish. It would not have been ammonia. Zabra danios are one of the preferred fish for doing fish in cycles because they are a fairly ammonia hardy species. This means they can handle high ammonia levels for longer than most fish. The are not quite as good with nitrite but are still above average.
 
However, the only Nutrafin Ammonia Kit I can get instructions for online is a modified salycylate kit that use 3 reagents. Can you read the test kit instructions and tell me what they say it reads. Here is a link to the Hagen directions for the ammonia kit I see http/usa.hagen.com/File/562a7af0-2c27-41fb-8092-1a14a0b3f302 When I select the UK site they don't provide a link for test kit instructions. However, you will note in the instructions below they use the UK spelling of colour not the American color.
 

HOW DOES THE TEST WORK?
1) Take a sample of the water to be tested with the pipette and use it to fill a clean test tube to
the 5 mL line.
2) Add 7 drops of Reagent #1 into the test tube. Insert cap. Hold in place with finger and shake
well to mix. ATTENTION! ALWAYS USE THE CAP. AVOID SKIN CONTACT.
3) Add 7 drops of Reagent #2 into the test tube. Insert cap. Hold in place with finger and shake
well to mix.
4) Add 7 drops of Reagent #3* into the test tube. Insert cap. Hold in place with finger and
shake well to mix.
5) Wait 20 minutes for colour to develop and match the test colour to the closest colour on the
chart. For best results, hold the test tube flat against the paper and read with a light source
behind you.
6) After use, rinse the tube with fresh tap water to ensure it is clean for next use.
*IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO PROTECT THIS REAGENT FROM LIGHT. KEEP BOTTLE CLOSED AND IN
THE BOX.
 
TEST METHOD • INDOPHENOL METHOD MODIFIED
When phenol is combined with hypochlorite it reacts in the presence of ammonia to create
indophenol blue. The intensity of colour is proportional to the amount of total ammonia present.
 
The above is basically the description of a salycilate test.
 
Don't bother with the filter start. Dr Tims One and Only, Tetra's Safe Start or media/substrate from a cycled tank can all help.

 
Do have some Interpet Filter start that came with the tank could i use that? - It did say to add 2 drops when i first add the fish in and add two drops every other day for 7 days?

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I would not use FS as I have heard it contains the wrong type of bacteria - Caused me a few problems too.