New Fish - Only Two Survivors - Need Help/advise

If your ammonia is 0.5 you need to do another water change as soon as possible. You need to keep it from ever getting above 0.25. The black neon may be hardier than a neon but it will still be harmed by ammonia and nitrite even if it doesn't die quickly. If you change 50% if the water, that will only get the ammonia level down to 0.25 and it'll soon get above that. Changing 90% will get it much lower. That way you'll be able to keep it below 0.25 rather than it getting above before you test again. You need to test at least once a day, preferably more often, and do a water change whenever the reading shows above zero even if it's still less than 0.25.
The same applies to nitrite, that too must never be allowed to get to 0.25.

The snail - they do have a trapdoor they can pull shut if the water isn't to their liking but they can't stay like that. Put it back in the tank and make sure the shell opening is downwards. If ever you see it on its back, turn it over. Some fish will nip at the snail's body as it comes out to try and right itself, so it'll go back in a again. They can be stranded on their backs permanently if the fish keep nipping at them, so I always turn them over. If you keep your ammonia and nitrite low, that'll be good for the snail as well as the fish.

essjay said:

If your ammonia is 0.5 you need to do another water change as soon as possible. You need to keep it from ever getting above 0.25. The black neon may be hardier than a neon but it will still be harmed by ammonia and nitrite even if it doesn't die quickly. If you change 50% if the water, that will only get the ammonia level down to 0.25 and it'll soon get above that. Changing 90% will get it much lower. That way you'll be able to keep it below 0.25 rather than it getting above before you test again. You need to test at least once a day, preferably more often, and do a water change whenever the reading shows above zero even if it's still less than 0.25.
The same applies to nitrite, that too must never be allowed to get to 0.25.

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I went out and found the API Freshwater Master Test Kit - did a water change and tested again. According to the color charts my readings were this:
pH = 7.6
Ammonia = 0.25
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 20

This was directly after the change in water and the addition of the Water Conditioner, Algae Control, and something called the API Quick Start which according to the bottle is supposed to "...quickly consume ammonia and nitrite by immediately establishing the biological filter to help prevent new tank syndrome." I found this at the store when I was getting the Master Test Kit.

I think I should test again later this evening to give the chemicals a chance to do their thing. Then I'll do another change of water tomorrow to see if I can get the Ammonia down further.

essjay said:

The snail - they do have a trapdoor they can pull shut if the water isn't to their liking but they can't stay like that. Put it back in the tank and make sure the shell opening is downwards. If ever you see it on its back, turn it over. Some fish will nip at the snail's body as it comes out to try and right itself, so it'll go back in a again. They can be stranded on their backs permanently if the fish keep nipping at them, so I always turn them over. If you keep your ammonia and nitrite low, that'll be good for the snail as well as the fish.

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I'm wondering if the snail I have is truly a "Zebra Snail" because I don't see any trap door, unless he just hasn't closed it, or I don't know how to identify it. Please see attached photo (with him turned down and up). Again, he smells okay to me.

If your ammonia is 0.25 right after a water change, you need to do another. It can only get higher before you test again. Try doing a huge (around 90%) water change and see how low that gets it. Even if the API quick start does work (though most people will tell you it'll do nothing) it won't do anything instantly, you'll still need to do water changes every time you see ammonia and/or nitrite above zero.

And please don't use the algae control - it'll remove the snail's food. You need to grow some algae for the snail to eat. Not to mention that it is not a good idea to add a lot of chemicals while you are trying to grow your filter bacteria. If you kill any algae it'll decompose to make even more ammonia.


That's a nerite snail. In the second pic, the pinky area is the trapdoor. If the snail finds something it doesn't like (water conditions, a fish nibbling at it) it'll pull a flap over its body and seal the shell. Your pic shows a sealed in snail. They can live like that for several days but not much longer. Your tetras may nibble at it whenever it tries to get out of its shell, so you need to make sure it is the right way up (pinky area on the gravel), and turn it over if it goes onto its back.
Nerite snails don't look like the ones you find in the garden. When they are out and about hardly any of the body shows. All you will see is a pair of tiny feelers sticking out from under the shell. But when they crawl up the glass you'll be able to see underneath, and you'll see the soft body and a little mouth continually scraping the glass for algae. Since your tank is new, there won't be much algae in it yet so you may have to feed the snail till some grows. In my experience they don't go much for lettuce or cucumber which other types of snail love - or it may be that my tanks have so much algae that the snails don't need to bother with them. You could try putting a piece of lettuce/cucumber right next to the snail, but take them out after a few hours before they make the water bad.



Edited because I can't type properly!

essjay said:

If your ammonia is 0.25 right after a water change, you need to do another. It can only get higher before you test again. Try doing a huge (around 90%) water change and see how low that gets it. Even if the API quick start does work (though most people will tell you it'll do nothing) it won't do anything instantly, you'll still need to do water changes every time you see ammonia and/or nitrite above zero.

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I did almost the entire tank and dropped the algae control from the chemicals. I did a quick test of the Ammonia and it looked good, but I couldn't check it in natural light so I'll do another in the morning. We bought the algae control after a water change at the beginning of the summer made our tank so murky you couldn't see the fish. The Local Fish Store said that the tap water in our area usually gets more algae during the summer. The stuff they recommended took care of it in less than 15 minutes so who knows...

essjay said:

That's a nerite snail. In the second pic, the pinky area is the trapdoor. If the snail finds something it doesn't like (water conditions, a fish nibbling at it) it'll pull a flap over its body and seal the shell. Your pic shows a sealed in snail. They can live like that for several days but not much longer. Your tetras may nibble at it whenever it tries to get out of its shell, so you need to make sure it is the right way up (pinky area on the gravel), and turn it over if it goes onto its back.

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Just shows you how much I know - or don't know. But I'm learning. Thanks again for all the help.

New test results after 90% water refill:

pH = 7.6
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0

The Ammonia is the hardest to read, but in nice diffused sunlight it's definitely yellow. So I'm reading it at 0.

The fish don't seem to be too impressed. I fed them this morning and the flakes floated down towards the bottom passing them without any interest. The snail still hasn't moved.

I think the major water change kinda freaked them out a bit. When the water was replaced the stuck to the top with their heads at the water edge. I read online that that means they didn't have enough oxygen in the tank or that the ammonia levels were too high. This morning they were back to their mid tank float. Bobbing up and down but not swimming too much.

Should I let this sit for a few days and check again? Should I do another 50% water refresh again? (or more?)

You need to check about 12 hours after the water change. If the ammonia reading is up, do another water change. If it's still zero, and nitrite is still zero too, don't do a water change, but test again in another 12 hours. Then depending on the ammonia and nitrite readings, either a water change or test again in 12 hours. You need to do this 12 hour testing, with water changes whenever the readings are above zero, until you've gone a week with nothing but double zeros. The 12 hours don't need to be exact, just something like morning and evening. This is the minimum, you can test more often if you want.

Once you've had the double zeros for a week without needing to do any water changes you can get more fish. Very very slowly. You'll only have enough bacteria to deal with the ammonia from 2 fish and a snail. If you add too many fish (ie more than 1) there won't be enough bacteria to cope and you'll be back to doing lots of water changes till the bacteria have grown some more.

essjay said:

You need to check about 12 hours after the water change. If the ammonia reading is up, do another water change. If it's still zero, and nitrite is still zero too, don't do a water change, but test again in another 12 hours. Then depending on the ammonia and nitrite readings, either a water change or test again in 12 hours. You need to do this 12 hour testing, with water changes whenever the readings are above zero, until you've gone a week with nothing but double zeros. The 12 hours don't need to be exact, just something like morning and evening. This is the minimum, you can test more often if you want.

Once you've had the double zeros for a week without needing to do any water changes you can get more fish. Very very slowly. You'll only have enough bacteria to deal with the ammonia from 2 fish and a snail. If you add too many fish (ie more than 1) there won't be enough bacteria to cope and you'll be back to doing lots of water changes till the bacteria have grown some more.

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My ammonia levels were back up to .25 again this morning. (frustrating!)

I'm at a loss. It was definitely down to 0 yesterday morning - then I added some food, a small amount there's only two fish after all - but I'm guessing that most, if not all, of it floated down to the bottom. Last nights test had a bit of green. And then this morning it was definitely up to .25 again. Could the uneaten food be affecting this tank that drastically and that quickly?

Do I do another 90% water change? Is there any kind of additive that would help reduce the ammonia? Could I be doing the test incorrectly? (It seems idiot proof... but who knows? The directions are pretty specific.)

To go back to your first post:
You used a contaminated bucket to do a water change, your water went milky and your fish died. Probably due to some chemical in the bucket (what else was it used for, washing the car? other cleaning product? weedkiller as suggested by the lock man?). Whatever it was it looks as though it not only killed the fish but also the bacteria in the filter. So you were left with 2 fish and an uncycled filter. You are now doing what is called a fish-in cycle, which involves a lot of water changes until you've grown a new set of bacteria, which could easily take a month or two.

I'm giving you a link which explains what cycling is and how to do a fish-in cycle. It was written for people who have just got fish, but you are now in the same situation as such people - you have fish but no bacteria in the filter. It tells you what you need to do to keep your fish alive.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/


Basically, for the next month or two, you need to test your water twice a day for both ammonia and nitrite, and do a water change whenever you see a reading above zero for either of them. At first you'll only see ammonia but once the bacteria that eat ammonia and turn it into nitrite start to grow you will see a reading for nitrite too. You need to do water changes as often as necessary to stop either ammonia or nitrite ever getting above 0.25. This could mean daily water changes for a few weeks yet.

Food will make the readings go up faster. Uneaten food will decompose to make ammonia, and the food the fish eat gets turned into ammonia by the fish. Feeding them once every two or even three days will slow down the rate at which ammonia is made.

essjay said:

To go back to your first post:
You used a contaminated bucket to do a water change, your water went milky and your fish died. Probably due to some chemical in the bucket (what else was it used for, washing the car? other cleaning product? weedkiller as suggested by the lock man?). Whatever it was it looks as though it not only killed the fish but also the bacteria in the filter. So you were left with 2 fish and an uncycled filter. You are now doing what is called a fish-in cycle, which involves a lot of water changes until you've grown a new set of bacteria, which could easily take a month or two.

I'm giving you a link which explains what cycling is and how to do a fish-in cycle. It was written for people who have just got fish, but you are now in the same situation as such people - you have fish but no bacteria in the filter. It tells you what you need to do to keep your fish alive.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/


Basically, for the next month or two, you need to test your water twice a day for both ammonia and nitrite, and do a water change whenever you see a reading above zero for either of them. At first you'll only see ammonia but once the bacteria that eat ammonia and turn it into nitrite start to grow you will see a reading for nitrite too. You need to do water changes as often as necessary to stop either ammonia or nitrite ever getting above 0.25. This could mean daily water changes for a few weeks yet.

Food will make the readings go up faster. Uneaten food will decompose to make ammonia, and the food the fish eat gets turned into ammonia by the fish. Feeding them once every two or even three days will slow down the rate at which ammonia is made.

Click to expand...

I will continue to do water changes until I have the 0 readings as you describe. I was back to 0 and 0 last night and this morning.

There's no telling what could have been in that first bucket. I thought I had rinsed it thoroughly, but I know better now.

Alas, the snail did not survive.

Sorry to hear about the snail. They are very sensitive to things in the water. If I ever have to treat the tank I always move my snails for the duration and make very sure I have removed every trace of medication before putting them back.

I have several fish-only buckets in the greenhouse (it's more of a glass shed!). The buckets for everything else are in the garage. Heaven help anyone who touches one of my fish buckets........

My Fish buckets are kept in a separate cupboard to everything. if they ever do get used to wash the car (nearly killed the missus and kids) I went out and bought brand new buckets. I'm sure you can buy pre bacterial filter media which helps start up the cycle and give it a kick start.