Possible Water Emergency?

So I just noticed before that all my fish were hanging at the very top of the tank gasping, which is obviously out of character so I freaked out and changed 25% of the water and added water conditioner. They all seem to have settled back towards the middle/bottom (depending on type) of the tank again, but I found my brand new comet dead under a piece of driftwood when I was doing my daily nightly pleco count

I don't have a test kit (though I really want to get ammonia tests asap).. What could have caused all my fish to be gasping at the top? Would the water change have fixed the problem if they're all back down low again?

All I did today was add 2 new fish (one now deceased), and add 2 new small pieces of driftwood replacing the old large one.

How old is the tank?
How big is the tank?
What species are the fish in the tank and how many of each?
What is your water maintenance routine?

You need to get a test kit, there's no want about it!

hanny93 said:

How old is the tank?
How big is the tank?
What species are the fish in the tank and how many of each?
What is your water maintenance routine?

You need to get a test kit, there's no want about it!

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The tank is about 4-5 months old. Definitely cycled.
The tank is 70L and houses 2 female Bristlenose, 1 large male Bristlenose, 1 albino bristlenose and 1 gold spotted pleco. Also a comet, a sucking catfish, a crown fighter fish, and a rainbow shark who is being rehomed on Thursday. Also 7 neons, and 5 danio (only cause I got one by accident with my snails and had to get him friends). Also, 10 mystery snails and one random small snail that I only just noticed the other day and had assumed was gunk for months.

I do a 25% water change every 2 weeks, and gravel vac every 3-4 weeks. I also have one of those magnetic glass cleaner things, though I don't know how much that does.

And I will get a testing kit at work tomorrow then! I was told that buying a test kit can cause more deaths once you start playing with all that stuff...

Right, I'm assuming the gold spotted pleco is a golden nugget pleco, whioch can grow up to 20cm and need rather large tanks.
I have no idea what you mean by comet, do you mean a goldfish variety or another variety? If you mean goldfish it needs to come out ASAP. Not only do they grow huge, but they are poop machines and need 70 gallons or bigger PER FISH.

And again with 'sucking catfish', do you mean a chinese algae eater? Or a siamese algae eater? Or something else? What did you buy it as?

Betta would probably be ok in there with smaller, peaceful tankmates.

Good that youre getting rid of the shark, you are majorly overstocked, I've just put everything into ##150### aswell, youre almost 3X overstocked and not one of the sp[ecies is compatible with all other inhabitants either temperature wise or size wise.

You need to really recosider your tank, maybe get rid of evrything and start again.

Also, your maintenance routine is not enough for the stocking level.

You need to be doing larger waterchanges at least every 2 or 3 days IMO, and gravel vaccing every single waterchange because of all those fish that popp a lot, especially the plecs.

You need a test kit, there is no chemicals going into the tank, all it does is help you diagnose the cause of any problems. Whoever told you that is silly.

hanny93 said:

Right, I'm assuming the gold spotted pleco is a golden nugget pleco, whioch can grow up to 20cm and need rather large tanks.
I have no idea what you mean by comet, do you mean a goldfish variety or another variety? If you mean goldfish it needs to come out ASAP. Not only do they grow huge, but they are poop machines and need 70 gallons or bigger PER FISH.

And again with 'sucking catfish', do you mean a chinese algae eater? Or a siamese algae eater? Or something else? What did you buy it as?

Betta would probably be ok in there with smaller, peaceful tankmates.

Good that youre getting rid of the shark, you are majorly overstocked, I've just put everything into ##150### aswell, youre almost 3X overstocked and not one of the sp[ecies is compatible with all other inhabitants either temperature wise or size wise.

You need to really recosider your tank, maybe get rid of evrything and start again.

Also, your maintenance routine is not enough for the stocking level.

You need to be doing larger waterchanges at least every 2 or 3 days IMO, and gravel vaccing every single waterchange because of all those fish that popp a lot, especially the plecs.

You need a test kit, there is no chemicals going into the tank, all it does is help you diagnose the cause of any problems. Whoever told you that is silly.

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Thanks for your suggestions.

I am getting rid of the shark because he is extremely aggressive.

As for the others, I work at a Pet Store and often fish are just going to be "disposed of" when tanks are moved around/gotten rid of, so I end up with a few free fish just to save them from being flushed alive.
I'm moving out of my parents house and into my own in a few weeks and I am going to be buying a new tank at least 4x the size of my current tank, so I'm just trying to keep all these fish alive until then. So it won't be "over-stocked" for much longer.

So would you suggest I do another 25% water change tonight AND gravel vac?

By comet I do mean a form of goldfish. He actually used to be in his own coldwater tank, but all he would do is lie on the bottom and not eat in there, so someone suggested I try him out in my tropical tank and he acted so alive and ate and gained weight so I left him in there. He wasn't healthy at all in his coldwater tank but is fine now apart from battle wounds from the aggro shark.
The "Gold Spotted Pleco" was sold to me under that name, so that's all I know it as.
As for the "sucking catfish", I have no idea what it is. It was one of the free ones saved from being flushed at work, and that is what they were sold as, simply "sucking catfish".. so it's scientific name is a mystery to me!

My betta is doing fine with all the tank mates. The only fish that attacks any of the others is the shark. He killed all my guppies, and 3 of my neons, hence why I am giving him away. I've been trying for ages because I refuse to kill a fish, and I've finally found someone who wants him.

Right well you obviously dont want to listen to advice given, can you post a pic of the whole tank, of the gold spotted plec and of the sucking catfish.

I dont get why youve put overstocked in speech marks, you ARE majorly overstocked.

Also, the comet needs to be in a bigger tank, preferably a pond, please just listen, they get huge, i mean 10 inches plus, watch this.
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM8WuI7zqgY&feature=related

And yes, gravel vac and 25-40% waterchange tonight, and every few days after that until you get this 'new tank'.

Remember to cycle the new tank.

Also, what filtration do you have on the current tank?

hanny93 said:

Right well you obviously dont want to listen to advice given, can you post a pic of the whole tank, of the gold spotted plec and of the sucking catfish.

I dont get why youve put overstocked in speech marks, you ARE majorly overstocked.

Also, the comet needs to be in a bigger tank, preferably a pond, please just listen, they get huge, i mean 10 inches plus, watch this.
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM8WuI7zqgY&feature=related

And yes, gravel vac and 25-40% waterchange tonight, and every few days after that until you get this 'new tank'.

Remember to cycle the new tank.

Also, what filtration do you have on the current tank?

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Okay there is absolutely no need to be rude.

When/where did I say I don't want to listen to advice? I do want to listen, hence asking for advice. I was simply STATING that I *AM* getting a new tank soon (no need to put 'new tank' in the semi-quotations, as I am) so I am holding out for that. Would you rather I let fish just be flushed alive? Working with lots of people who keep fish I hear of many aquariums that break general "fish-keeping rules" and theirs are fine. I know someone who has 20 fish in a 20L tank and has never even lost one in almost a year.

I actually put 'over-stocked' in QUOTATION marks because I was quoting you. I don't generally use that word in regards to my tank because I wasn't exactly aware of how badly over-stocked it is so I was simply quoting you, not suggesting it wasn't true. I now know it is. Thanks.

Like I said, the comet was in a large cold water tank, but he acted half dead and pretty much was dying in there, so I thought keeping him in an environment where he actually acted alive was doing the right thing because at least he was eating. My parents do have a pond that I can re-home him in, which I may consider now after watching that.

I will definitely cycle the new tank. I will most likely put at least half of my current tanks water in it as well just to help my fish adapt to it, as well as the same ornaments.

I will go do the gravel vac & further water changes now. I got a suggestion to leave the lid open overnight, to allow oxygen to flow in, as the fish appear to be gasping for air at the top? Is this a good or bad idea considering I have snails in the tank?

It was also suggested that tomorrow I buy an Air pump and air stone to add oxygen to the tank... good or bad idea?

As for filtration, it just has a built in filter so I'm not really sure as to how I'd answer that. The pipe is connected to the filter box at the end with 4 black balls, then 2 compartments with filter pads around 2 bags of carbon, then 8 bio-noods above the actual water flowing part. If that makes any sense? It is a 'Blue Planet' aquarium.

Photo of the 'Gold Spotted Pleco' as it was sold to me as:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/364718-my-new-gold-spotted-pleco/

The 'Sucking Catfish':

Sorry I didn't mean to come across as rude, I really didn't, i do apologise it must just be this weather, i hate it and it makes me crabby.

I just think you would be a lot better off if you put the comet in the pond, rehomed the shark which you are doing already and maybe think about getting rid of the betta if you are getting a new tank, they dont do well in larger tanks so I've heard.

when you get the new tank, you don't need to keep the old water at all. All it contains is ammonia nitrates and nitrites, no point keeping it!
Take time when doing it aswell, and might I suggest changing your gravel for sand, much cleaner and much better for your water chemistry, just make sure to wash it well before you do. If you do that you won't need to gravel vac as much because there wont be any manky stuff in it!

I'd keep the lid closed for now, bettas like to jump, as do goldies and danio.

Air stone is always a good idea, what you need is maximum surface agitation, if you can turn your filter outlet pipe towards the surface, this will help with gas exchange, and the filter i have no idea about, if its built in youve probably got between 1 and 2X turnover, which isnt the best but it's doable.

And that suckign catfish i would have thought would be a CAE, which get increasingly aggressive as they grow older, but someone will have to second me on that!

I would second the guess at a chinese algae eater. Although many people say they get aggressive I have never had any problems.

You said you saved the fish from being live flushed, that's awful that someone would flush them were they going to flush the plecs?

I also heard somewhere, although don't know if it's true, that driftwood can affect the PH?? Any seconds on that?

Test kit was the best thing I ever bought! You get a load of little test tubes which you put a small amount of tank water in.
Drop a few different chemicals in from the kit and then compare the colour with the chart.

I had major nitrite problems and testing each day allowed me to manage water changes and work out what measures I was taking worked

I got an air pump with a stone coz I was overstocked ( I really had no idea how few fish you can keep)
The bubbles increase the surface area of the water so it gets more oxygen.
Its a short term solution and when you move some to another tank it still looks pretty.

I would also like to second hanny93 on this horrible weather making me cranky!

Ok that's good then, it's just sometimes on these forums people give really nasty replies to new people especially, because we generally don't know what we're doing so those with lots of experience probably think we're idiots.

I do have a fighter fish tank, with 3 separate compartments, if you know the ones I'm talking about. I just need to buy a heat mat or find a sunny (not too sunny) place to keep the tank and he'll be pretty easy to re-home as well.

Yeah I think I'd go for sand in the new tank. I hate gravel. And I hate doing gravel vacs, my arm gets tired, I hate it when fish touch my arm and the tank always looks filthy after I do it.. does this mean I'm doing it wrong? I pump the vacuum end into the gravel and water comes goes into my bucket, but it just seems to stir up all the crap in the tank and makes it look worse...

I will definitely get an air stone tomorrow, even if it's a short-term solution. I just finished doing a gravel vac (did my other tank too while I was at it) and I changed 25% of the water again... the seem to be hanging around in the middle again now but the bristlenose is still swimming up to the surface at high speed to gulp air, is this normal?

The little sucking catfish (Chinese Algae Eater?) has never actually been aggressive at all. He keeps to himself, usually just sitting on that leaf sucking away.. if he ever got aggressive I'd rehome him somehow as well.
And yeah my work was just going to flush him, and a few others. One tank was emptied and when all the gravel was poured out my boss found like 10 of them at the bottom, and left them in about 1cm of water and they were all going to be just flushed. So I took 3, unfortunately though 2 had such severe ammonia burns from being in very little water that they died pretty much the minute I got them home This little dude survived though!

Does a test kit test ammonia as well? Or is that a separate test that I'd have to buy?

And can driftwood affect the pH? I hope not.. because I heard bristlenose required driftwood, though I'm not sure how true that is either... so many rules/myths/complicated things to remember in fish keeping!! I should have gotten a dog

Yeah and that time my lovely dog had just ripped up my chamomile plant so i wasnt in the best of moods! And those people that are horrible i know exactly what you mean, but everyone has to start somewhere

You can get heaters really cheap nowadays, ive got two kept in a box for emergencies incase my shiny new external one breaks, i trhink i got a 25W for about £11, and you can easily pick up secondhand nes off here or ebay

I'd suggest putting your betta in that tank youre talking about, along with some live plants and a heater, dont bother putting it in a sunny place, all you'll get is a boiled betta and tons of algae, but yes he'd be easy to rehome, lots of people love bettas, especially on this forum.

If you do get sand, wash it wash it wash it until you think its clean, then wash it again, otherwise you'll end up with super cloudy water and a broken impellor. I think you must be gravel vaccing wrong if there's more filth in the water afterwards, although that might be from pouring the water back in if youre disturbing the gravel.

I'd suggest doing much bigger water changes than 25%, what it smacks of is ammonia poisoning, you really need to get that test kit, just to see what your stats are like. If you buy Salifert test kits from here http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/catalog/salifert-products-profitest-kits-c-457_459.html?osCsid=15cc7c4d74bbf90f209232ea981d117f, buy ammonia, pH, nitrate and nitrite, much better than the API ones and only a couple of pounds more expensive only if youre in the UK though, if youre from anywhere else, go for the API.

And CAE's get aggressive as they grow older, people buy them as cute little sucky things and they turn out to be monsters, they can actually get pretty big aswell, i saw a video of one in a zoo, 6-8 inches id say

Driftwood does lower the pH, but it is mega beneificial to your plecs, they need to graze on roughage like driftwood in order to survive. Some people have noted no difference when bogwood has been added.

Dont get a dog they eat your plants!

So what I'm seeing here is:

Do much larger water changes (say 50%) that include gravel vacs. The best way I found to vac is to plunge the end into the gravel and wiggle just a bit, then wait a few seconds for all the crud to get sucked into the bucket. Then move to the next spot. You don't have to worry about getting every square inch every time. But with the next time, move to a different area of the tank. That way you don't get any huge buildups.

Do get some driftwood, or bogwood. It does lower the pH and is essential for the health of your plecos. It's also pretty when it's done well and gives them hiding places.

CAEs are quite cute when they're little, as I thought when I had mine, but kind of like some teenage boys turn nasty and violent when they hit maturity.

And your goldfish will definitely outgrow whatever you have indoors. Thanks for that disgusting video, hanny! Certainly proves a point, though, doesn't it?

I applaud your rescue efforts for these fish. I'd be doing the same thing! I'm also encouraged that you signed up here to find out everything you can. There's really a wealth of information here, and as long as you're willing to listen most of us are more than happy to help out. The folks that irritate us are the ones who don't listen to good advice. The whole point is to give our fish the best place to live, right?

Cheers. Please keep us posted!

Firstly well done on saving the fish

I won't go on about your overstocking,But obviously you know by now,you are overstocked and hopefully are sorting this out.Until your test kit comes i would do daily w/c's 25-50% until you know what your readings are for ammonia & nitrite.

Unfortunately having plecs & goldfish in the tank this will make your gravel very messy,you really do need to keep on top of keeping your gravel clean,weekly is good,i know its a pain but it will save having poor water quality which will affect your fishies health.

This Old Spouse said:

And your goldfish will definitely outgrow whatever you have indoors. Thanks for that disgusting video, hanny! Certainly proves a point, though, doesn't it?

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Whole reason i chose that one and i didnt choose a nice one of a huge fish in a nice big pond


But yes i must commend you for taking on all those fish, but you cant keep doing it forever!

I was just reading your other thread about algae,you said your replaced the filter pads,is this the same tank??

This could be the cause of your fish gasping at the surface,has recommended do a minimum daily w/c of 50% or more until your test kit arrives.

Changing the filter pad instead of swishing it in used tank water,you have gone into a fish in cycle,and you will need to do these w/c's to keep your fish alive.

Good luck.