The 10x4

[anewbie]

A *long* time ago i mentioned i was getting a 10x4 and an 8x4 (dimensions in ft); and i received them a while ago - this is the 10x4:

 

[Wills]

Good lord... whats your plan for it? I toyed with an 8 foot for a few weeks but got scared away! Big commitment but bet its going to be worth it!

 

[Lcc86]

Wow I'd have no room left in my house if I had something like that! Can't wait to see what you do with it!

 

[anewbie]

Good lord... whats your plan for it? I toyed with an 8 foot for a few weeks but got scared away! Big commitment but bet its going to be worth it!

+10 clown loaches 20 zebra loaches 5 yoyo loaches
*4 chocolate - reduced to 2 when sexed
* 1 flagtail prochilodus
~4-6 laeracara speices (probalby curviceps or aguaria)
* 8 krobia xinguensis
some random pleco (L208, one of the gold nuggets - probably L271 or L018 (271 is large dots, 018 is small dots and 18/85 are medium), l172a, l204, l208,... TBD)
~ 10-20 hemiodus gracilis (don't think these fits)
+30 serpae tetra (chocolate will eat them when they get larger)
~10-15 anostums (if i can find them affordable)
a few random domestic angelfishes
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target temp 78-80 target tds 70-90 (i can control the tds from 0 to 130)


The items with + are definite; the items with * are maybe but likely, the items with ~ are probably if they fit, the items with - i don't really want. Given your expertise feel free to suggest alternative:
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[Wills]

Blimey I've just realised you meant 4 foot depth! Is it 4 foot in depth and height? Whats the total capacity?

I like the loaches think they will work but... my biotope OCD clicks a bit with these in here? Have you considered keeping it all South American? The Clown Loaches are pretty unique due to their size, lack of predation and colours but can think of some other South American options for the others like Flagtail Cats, Hoplos, Brochis, Wood Cats etc. Is there any reason as to the numbers of each species? Feels like you could do 20 of the Zebras and the Yoyos for example?

Chocolates are a gorgeous cichlid and you might find you can keep all 4 long term but you are right they will go for the smaller fish when adult - I had a male once and he ate so many fish, some of which I couldnt believe! The Zebra Loaches and a smaller species of Laetacara could also be at risk. Have you considered any other cichlids? Since you can control your hardness well (which I find stagering on a tank this big) how about Panda Uaru? Bit of a rarity and can be quite sensitive but stunning fish - I'd also love to see a big group of regular Uarus in a tank this big, I have a really strong memory as a child in a pet shop seeing some Uaru, stuck with me even though I didnt know what they were. Severums feel like an other option, less predatory than Chocolates and some very pretty species around these days, always loved Notatus but never kept them I had a whats now called Heros Liberifer, quite an attractive fish with rows of red dots down the flanks and a squiggly face.

Flagtail Prochilodous, I'm never sure on these, a lot of people keep them as single specimens but is that because they just get so big - should they be in schools? I bet they live in schools in the wild but never looked it up! In a tank this big it feels like you would be able to? But it would be something that might make me want to swing more to a big fish tank rather than mixing in some of the smaller species you've got here.

The Laetacara and Krobia sound great, love Krobia Xinguensis. Dorsigera is a bit underrated cichlid for me but love the others as well.

Serpaes will look amazing in here, I'd go for more than 30 - start at like 50 but I don't think 100 is out of the question. The Hemiodus will look great and could fit nicely as an open water schooler with a different body shape than the others, just as an alternative what do you think of Costae Tetras? Slightly larger bodied tetra but really elegant looking. The headstanders would be great too - any ideas which species? I've always wanted to mix Annostomus Ternetzi and something like Synaptolaemus Latofasciatus just for the contrast in the way the stripes go.

Domestic angels sound good too - big group of them, I'd go for blacks or the blue scalaraes. In terms of the Plecos I think you've got free reign if cost no option check out L095, stunning pleco and really unique behaviour. I really like Sunny Plecos too I think L14?

I've just worked out 10x4x4 on our calculator and its like 1000 gallons! I can't even fathom it... I'm guessing this tank is sumped so your overall capacity will be bigger? I guess I'd go for something like...

4x Uaru A. (or Chocs or Severums)
8x Krobia Xinguensis
8x Laetacara sp.
12x Black Angelfish
20x Hemiodus
10x Annostomus Ternetzi
10x Synaptolaemus Latofasciatus
50x Serpae Tetras

Not to sure where that even brings us out but fairly certain we've still got space for the loaches/plecos etc.

Wills

 

[anewbie]

Blimey I've just realised you meant 4 foot depth! Is it 4 foot in depth and height? Whats the total capacity?

I like the loaches think they will work but... my biotope OCD clicks a bit with these in here? Have you considered keeping it all South American? The Clown Loaches are pretty unique due to their size, lack of predation and colours but can think of some other South American options for the others like Flagtail Cats, Hoplos, Brochis, Wood Cats etc. Is there any reason as to the numbers of each species? Feels like you could do 20 of the Zebras and the Yoyos for example?

Chocolates are a gorgeous cichlid and you might find you can keep all 4 long term but you are right they will go for the smaller fish when adult - I had a male once and he ate so many fish, some of which I couldnt believe! The Zebra Loaches and a smaller species of Laetacara could also be at risk. Have you considered any other cichlids? Since you can control your hardness well (which I find stagering on a tank this big) how about Panda Uaru? Bit of a rarity and can be quite sensitive but stunning fish - I'd also love to see a big group of regular Uarus in a tank this big, I have a really strong memory as a child in a pet shop seeing some Uaru, stuck with me even though I didnt know what they were. Severums feel like an other option, less predatory than Chocolates and some very pretty species around these days, always loved Notatus but never kept them I had a whats now called Heros Liberifer, quite an attractive fish with rows of red dots down the flanks and a squiggly face.

Flagtail Prochilodous, I'm never sure on these, a lot of people keep them as single specimens but is that because they just get so big - should they be in schools? I bet they live in schools in the wild but never looked it up! In a tank this big it feels like you would be able to? But it would be something that might make me want to swing more to a big fish tank rather than mixing in some of the smaller species you've got here.

The Laetacara and Krobia sound great, love Krobia Xinguensis. Dorsigera is a bit underrated cichlid for me but love the others as well.

Serpaes will look amazing in here, I'd go for more than 30 - start at like 50 but I don't think 100 is out of the question. The Hemiodus will look great and could fit nicely as an open water schooler with a different body shape than the others, just as an alternative what do you think of Costae Tetras? Slightly larger bodied tetra but really elegant looking. The headstanders would be great too - any ideas which species? I've always wanted to mix Annostomus Ternetzi and something like Synaptolaemus Latofasciatus just for the contrast in the way the stripes go.

Domestic angels sound good too - big group of them, I'd go for blacks or the blue scalaraes. In terms of the Plecos I think you've got free reign if cost no option check out L095, stunning pleco and really unique behaviour. I really like Sunny Plecos too I think L14?

I've just worked out 10x4x4 on our calculator and its like 1000 gallons! I can't even fathom it... I'm guessing this tank is sumped so your overall capacity will be bigger? I guess I'd go for something like...

4x Uaru A. (or Chocs or Severums)
8x Krobia Xinguensis
8x Laetacara sp.
12x Black Angelfish
20x Hemiodus
10x Annostomus Ternetzi
10x Synaptolaemus Latofasciatus
50x Serpae Tetras

Not to sure where that even brings us out but fairly certain we've still got space for the loaches/plecos etc.

Wills

It is not meant to be biotope compatible - it is 4 feet wide and 10 feet long - only 23 inches high (depth is always confusing since some use it for width and others for height). I could never do a 36 inch or 48 inch high aquarium because it would be impossible to reach all the plants.
-
The aquarium will have lots of plants so that is why i picked chocolate over uaru or severums.

does this change your thoughts on stocking?

 

[Wills]

It is not meant to be biotope compatible - it is 4 feet wide and 10 feet long - only 23 inches high (depth is always confusing since some use it for width and others for height). I could never do a 36 inch or 48 inch high aquarium because it would be impossible to reach all the plants.
-
The aquarium will have lots of plants so that is why i picked chocolate over uaru or severums.

Ahhh that makes sense! Chocs it is then! With a 10x4 foot base I really wouldnt be surprised if you could keep all 4 Chocs long term. I'd probably go for bigger characins in the tank and maybe skip the Serpaes? Though they might be ok... how do you feel about Columbians or Bleeding Hearts? Not sure if they would make much of a difference if the Chocs are particularly predatory though. Possibly rethink the Zebra Loaches and Laetacaras as well... I think the Krobia will be ok - Laetacara Thayeri could be an option I had a group of 4 for a while, lovely fish, but mine went totally mental when they bred but this is a much bigger tank. Thayeri do get a fair bit bigger but I can't see them getting to the 9 inches you see stated in some places, could be totally wrong though.

Wills

 

[anewbie]

@Wills

Ahhh that makes sense! Chocs it is then! With a 10x4 foot base I really wouldnt be surprised if you could keep all 4 Chocs long term. I'd probably go for bigger characins in the tank and maybe skip the Serpaes? Though they might be ok... how do you feel about Columbians or Bleeding Hearts? Not sure if they would make much of a difference if the Chocs are particularly predatory though. Possibly rethink the Zebra Loaches and Laetacaras as well... I think the Krobia will be ok - Laetacara Thayeri could be an option I had a group of 4 for a while, lovely fish, but mine went totally mental when they bred but this is a much bigger tank. Thayeri do get a fair bit bigger but I can't see them getting to the 9 inches you see stated in some places, could be totally wrong though.

Wills

Skipping the serpae is fine - but i nkow they will hide in the large amazon sword if i have them (that is what they do with the festum who will hunt them); bleeding hearts i don't like visually; I could try the columbians but they seem similar size to the serpae - is there some other advantage such as schooling behavior? I could rethink the zebra loach - i have 8 now - but they have some age so i could put them in the tank while the cocholate are young and just not add to them. I like the zebra because they are more mellow than the clown and yoyo but i can see size being a problem. Do you think Laetacara araguaiae might work - i've not had curviceps but the araguaiae i had were not small. There is a laetacara flamannellus which is around 5 inch; I could try the thayeri - pictures make them look less attractive but maybe in person nicer - so something like this:
+10 clown loaches 8 zebra loaches 5 yoyo loaches
*4 chocolate - reduced to 2 when sexed maybe
* 1 flagtail prochilodus
~4-6 laeracara thayeri
6 to 8 krobia xinguensis
10x Annostomus Ternetzi
10x Synaptolaemus Latofasciatus
some random pleco (L208, one of the gold nuggets - probably L271 or L018 (271 is large dots, 018 is small dots and 18/85 are medium), l172a, l204, l128,... TBD)
10-20 hemiodus gracilis (don't think these fits)
15 serpae tetra (current ones i have but not add to them; they will eventually die off)
(chocolate will eat them when they get larger)
---
You didn't mention the flagtail prochilodus - should i leave that off ?

a few random domestic angelfishes

 

[Wills]

I mentioned the Prochilodus above - just questioning if you get one or if you should have a school?

Are the Chocolates a must have, is it just the size and impact you are after? I was wondering if some Earth Eaters might be a good option? Some of the bigger Surinamensis or Satanoperca types could give you the impact you want without the predation or plant eating issues of the others - they will dig but I don't think they will cause your plants any more issues than the other species in the tank.

The only other thing I'm wondering are any of the Madagascan Cichlids like Pinstripe Dambas? Beautiful fish, large growing, small mouths, but not sure how they are with plants?

Wills

 

[anewbie]

I mentioned the Prochilodus above - just questioning if you get one or if you should have a school?

Are the Chocolates a must have, is it just the size and impact you are after? I was wondering if some Earth Eaters might be a good option? Some of the bigger Surinamensis or Satanoperca types could give you the impact you want without the predation or plant eating issues of the others - they will dig but I don't think they will cause your plants any more issues than the other species in the tank.

The only other thing I'm wondering are any of the Madagascan Cichlids like Pinstripe Dambas? Beautiful fish, large growing, small mouths, but not sure how they are with plants?

Wills

The chocolate are NOT a must - my interest are mostly in the fact they change colours due to mood; but their size is problematic and if i went with a smaller fish then the zebra loaches and serpae as well as lemon tetra would be options as long as their replacement is not too large.

I don't want geo in this tank due to the loaches and the fact that I will put neambi or mirabllis in the 8x4 and biotodoma wavrini or cupid in the 4x4 - so other tanks will have geo.
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guess i should drop the Prochilodus esp if i drop the chocolate to remove the super large fishes. Seriouslyfish has this comment on Semaprochilodus taeniurus
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It’s aggressive towards its own kind when kept in small numbers, but can be maintained in groups of six or more in larger tanks. Otherwise it’s best kept as a single specimen in a community of medium to large fish. Suitable tankmates include other large characins, Loricariids, Doradids, peaceful cichlids, knifefish, arowana and freshwater stingrays.
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I think the Pinstripe Dambas would be a very bad fit since it leans towards much harder water.... it is also a much more aggressive fish than the others i'm keeping. Last but least i feel i shouldn't mix africans with sa cichild.

 

[Colin_T]

Too many loaches. They are all territorial when it comes to other species and having 3 species of loach in one tank is a potential bloodbath when they mature. Have one species of loach per tank.

Flagtail Prochilodus eat plants and jump. I wouldn't keep them with angelfish either.

Serpae tetras are renown fin nippers and even in big groups I wouldn't trust them with slow moving fish or fish with long fins (angelfish could be bitten).

 

[anewbie]

Too many loaches. They are all territorial when it comes to other species and having 3 species of loach in one tank is a potential bloodbath when they mature. Have one species of loach per tank.

Flagtail Prochilodus eat plants and jump. I wouldn't keep them with angelfish either.

Serpae tetras are renown fin nippers and even in big groups I wouldn't trust them with slow moving fish or fish with long fins (angelfish could be bitten).

Colin - a few factual comments:
I've kept serpae with angels now for hte past 5 years and they don't nip the angels or at least the 15 i have with the angels don't nip them.
I've kept yoyo, clown and zebra together for the past 5 years in my 120 and they all group up and share the same caves. While the clown won't really be adults for a while clearly the zebra and yoyo are adults at this point. The two largest clown (around 6 inches do at times take sep caves away from the group but then the group tend to collect outside their cave and wait for them to come out when they want to play at night)
Flagtail prochilodus i know little about and so your suggest to skip it might be an excellent one.

 

[anewbie]

+10 clown loaches 8 zebra loaches 5 yoyo loaches
*4 chocolate - reduced to 2 when sexed maybe (negative can't keep serpae or zebra loaches with them)
~4-6 laeracara thayeri
6 to 8 krobia xinguensis
10x Annostomus Ternetzi
10x Synaptolaemus Latofasciatus
some random pleco (L208, one of the gold nuggets - probably L271 or L018 (271 is large dots, 018 is small dots and 18/85 are medium), l172a, l204, l128,... TBD)
10-20 hemiodus gracilis (not sure these are chocolate safe)
15 serpae tetra (current ones i have but not add to them; they will eventually die off)
(chocolate will eat them when they get larger)
---
Feel free to comment for further refinement.

 

[anewbie]

And here is the sister aquarium which is a 8x4 on the other side of the room:

 

[anewbie]

Here are my clowns in the 550 (10x4): They are so much happier in a 550 than the 120; seen by the fact that they swim up to me constantly to say hi. In that mix 9 clowns; 4 yoyo; - tank also has 6 zebra but the zebra aren't swimming with the clowns right now - i think they got tired out - they were with them in the morning. People who say an 80 or even a 200 is large enough for clowns are kidding themselves; they never tried a 550 - wish i had room for a larger aquarium for them.
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People keep saying mixing species of loaches are nothing but trouble but i've kept these three species together for four years now without any known issues. Grant you the clowns are not adults yet but the zebra and yoyo are adults and the zebra frequently join the clowns though i suspect as the clowns get larger they will stop being so much smaller and get a little banged up as the group moves from one end to the other - and the clowns spend all day long switching between the 4 feet side and the 10 feet side - the thing i like is in such a large tank they will frequently glass surf the 4 feet side right in front of me - something they would never do in the 120 (my chair is about 3 feet from the side of the tank). I really wish i did have a room for a larger aquarium but i think one of the reason i stopped at 550 was i couldn't get a longer panel for the front and back - i want to say 10 or 12 was the max for the vendors i checked for low dispersion glass.