How many batches of fry can a mutt guppy have in their lifetime? How about wild types? Kept track of a single female's total progeny?

[Colin_T]

A lot of people think that when they buy fish from more than one store that those fish ain't related. But if they came from the same wholesaler, they could still be related. And more wholesalers could use the same fish farm as a provider. Don't forget that either...

We have this exact problem here in Australia. There are 2 main importers/ wholesalers that provide about 90% of the fish to shops. There are plenty of other smaller wholesalers and importers too but they only provide fish to a small portion of the market. But if you buy guppies or pretty much any common aquarium fish from a shop in Australia, it probably came from one of the main importers and they get their bread and butter fish from the same suppliers in Asia.

 

[emeraldking]

We have this exact problem here in Australia. There are 2 main importers/ wholesalers that provide about 90% of the fish to shops. There are plenty of other smaller wholesalers and importers too but they only provide fish to a small portion of the market. But if you buy guppies or pretty much any common aquarium fish from a shop in Australia, it probably came from one of the main importers and they get their bread and butter fish from the same suppliers in Asia.

In such a case when someone has the time for it, they could get those related guppies and split them up in two or more groups. And breed them for a couple of generations and then mix them up a again. Then those fish will be farther related than before.

 

[GaryE]

We are pretty bad at record keeping, aren't we (most of us). I track the age of fish I buy by noting when I bought them, but home bred fish rarely even get counted. I had wild Trinidad and Colombian guppies for years, but they bred naturally and I admit, I never looked at them as individuals but rather as single species communities.
The wild caught (the Colombians got themselves into the folds of a bag with 40 juvenile piranhas and survived the trip (!!!!) and the Trinnies came from a colleague's backyard when she visited her original home) females were half the size of a fancy guppy, so I would expect smaller broods. I think the last time I marvelled at a bag of domestic guppies I was about 12, and a lot of linebreeding has happened to them since then. Most of the fancy guppies I see now would have shocked keepers back then, with their size.

I would find it hard to dislike guppies. They are wonderful fish, even if my interests took a different direction. I've gone to auctions and been tempted.

I do find it unfortunate that endlers and guppies were crossed. The first endlers I saw were also very different from a lot of what's sold as endlers now.

 

[emeraldking]

I do find it unfortunate that endlers and guppies were crossed

There's a simple reason for that... There's a market for such crossings...

 

[GaryE]

There's a simple reason for that... There's a market for such crossings...

I know the reason, but it's still an unfortunate development, in my books. Each species is interesting in its own right.

 

[emeraldking]

I know the reason, but it's still an unfortunate development, in my books. Each species is interesting in its own right.

I agree. But it's the commercial trade which sees that with different eyes.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I agree. But it's the commercial trade which sees that with different eyes.

Plus they're both often bought and kept together by beginner keepers who just want a nice community tank, and they being fine together, and closely related enough to produce viable offspring, naturally wind up interbreeding.

When I can I'll get some photos of the guppy/Endler colony I have from those males and the single female "guppies" I adopted from a beginner tank. To me, I see Endler in there, from the body markings, smaller size, and there was at least one male out of the 10-12 males he gave me that was obviously much more Endler type than the other larger males. I can't be 100% sure of course, I don't have your eye!

But just from my few years breeding mutt guppies and seeing Endler's in store and photos from keepers, I'm guessing they had both guppies and Endlers in the tank, so the inevitable crossing happened.

I think there have been similar issues with Corydoras, and concern about hybridized species being produced for sale and the potential for the original lines to die out, hence Ian Fuller's work to classify species and keep a register of keepers who are keeping and breeding proven species in captivity.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You are not going to like what I have to say here.
In my very first tank I was seduced by the long sword on swordtails so I got a pair. Like most new fish keepers I had no clue about live bearer math. But the reason I got angels was to eat swordtail fry. I ultimately and quickly tired of the commonorange variety of sword and I made a switch to the Montezuma. They are almost aas prolific but there are two advantages to them. The first is they are voracious eaters of their own newborns.

Second, unlike the more common swords, Montys wiil actually stop spawning and take a break for a while. So that solved some of my problems.

But there was a learning process involved. It comes down to this. If you do npot want to be overrun by the fry of almost any of the livebeaers, do not keep them. it is as simple as that. My advice to you is give them all away and your issue will go with them.

I have absolutely nothing against livebears as long as one truly understands what keeping them means in terms of reproduction. I can also tell you that the only fish joke I made up was this;

What is the definition of a Show Guppy? It is one that you show to the Oscar before you feed it to him.

This is why it is important to do in depth reserarch about any fish you are thinking about getting. I wanted to keep angels and when I was told they were great for handling livelbearer fry, I got a small group of double dark black angels. I got a pair from them and then they spawned and I had over 500 eggs. Then they gave me another 500 a couple of weeks later. ANd that was when I realized I did not want to keep and breed angels. Now I have Altums and you can almost count on your fingers the number of poeple out there who can spawn them. I am not one of them. This is whay I changed to working with those lovely B&W plecos who might give me a big spawn of 15 eggs.

edited to fix typos and spelling