Your opinion

[LostBear]

It is unfortunate and cruel to what some people are prepared to do. Frankly I'm on a couple of communities on FB but thats mainly for tanks and accessories I steer clear of any information given as most of the time it's incorrect. I also saw a man selling gold fish, it was horrible, there wasn't enough room in the tank for them all to be fully submerged. It was honestly disgusting. He was removed form the group and reported to the pet authorities, so I really hope he got what he deserved.

Again, people are cruel. I may be getting deep here but as a species we rank at the top on cruelty. It's horrible how so many people can have such little respect for life as a whole. It sickens me further that most of this cruelty is done for the sake of making a profit or saving money. Some people honestly disgust me.

I agree with you about man's capacity for cruelty and greed.

Puppy farming springs immediately to mind, but this is a fish forum so I mention it only in passing.

 

[LostBear]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but here are my $0.02:

I personally have no moral objection to feeding live food to carnivorous creatures if it's what they are biologically meant to eat. It's nature and nature isn't always kind. Most people in the fish hobby use fish like guppies or rosy red minnows as feeders (which likely started due to being inexpensive to produce). In my eyes, feeding betta fry or any other non-endangered species is no different. The difference is only aesthetics and because they pretty and commonly kept as pets, people get in the mindset that the pretty fish are somehow superior and have more valuable lives. This can be summed up as cognitive dissonance.

However, whenever possible, I would agree that deformed specimens that likely wouldn't have the same quality of life would be the most ethical to feed off.

I just couldn't deliberately feed something I'd bred myself. I know that fry birthed in a tank will get scoffed - such is life; but to breed to intentionally feed to another fish is . . . heartless. It reminds me of my fancy mice days - you had to breed many mice to get a show quality one, and people would often ask to buy my surplus for snake feed. I couldn't do it. Many went to pet shops; most I kept. I ended up with (literally) hundreds, which is why I stopped keeping and showing fancy mice.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I agree in theory that nature is brutal, we raise cute animals like chickens, pigs and cows for the sole purpose of eating them, and there's some hypocrisy in gleefully raising some creatures to eat or to feed to others, while drawing a line in the sand at other animals for emotional reasons. I can't find a logical, sound argument against someone doing that, while also buying daphnia to feed to my fish alive, and even enjoying watching them hunt them down, since my fish get so active and excited, and I know that the live food is healthy for them. So, I am a hypocrite.

But I would still look askance at someone raising bettas solely as food

I agree with culling deformed or unhealthy fry when breeding fish. It isn't good for the fish to allow unhealthy fry to survive and pass on those genes. But I don't keep predatory fish, and my version of culling is moving them to a female or male only tank to live out their lives with me. But I'm not producing hundreds upon hundreds of fish (well, 2-3 hundred), and have only had a handful of deformities. Someone breeding angels for example would soon run out of space if they kept every cull, they can't be housed in big groups like my guppies throughout their life. The reality is that they have to cull hard, and they can't possibly keep all of them. I think better that they keep the circle of life going and feed a predator fish that will benefit, than to let a deformed fish suffer a short unhealthy life, or give them to someone who might breed them, bringing down the health of the captive trade angels overall. I find the practice of breeding animals that have deformities much more offensive than feeding a carnivore live prey.

I even encourage people who keep livebearers and don't want to be overwhelmed with fry to leave them in a community tank, and let nature take its course. But I also advise to give some hiding places like plants to give the strongest, healthiest fry the best chance of making it, it's how the 55 community tank here is run, and soooo many fry survive. The fry in my tanks remain with the adults until their large enough/there are enough of them to move them to the grow out tank, so I know some must get eaten, and I could catch them all as newborns to prevent that, yet don't, so they cull them naturally.

I don't keep snakes, but I watch Snake Discovery, and like snakes, and know they need to eat. I kept pet rats as a kid and love them, I know they're pretty intelligent, sweet, playful animals. But they're also a part of the food chain, and a natural, healthy food for snakes - but don't agree with them being fed live unless absolutely necessary. Yet I have no problem with a snake keeper breeding rats for the purpose of snake food. And how is that different than raising bettas for that? It really isn't, I just don't like it from an emotional level, and couldn't do it myself, just like I couldn't euthanise my deformed but otherwise functionally healthy guppies.

I guess the difference for me, is breeding rats humanely for the purpose of food, humanely euthanising them before feeding, and doing it because it's necessary, is different from gleefully taking joy in breeding bettas for the same reasons. Sorry for the messy, disjointed essay, I guess my thoughts are too conflicted to make a logical argument either way. It's just my opinions.

 

[Kirstrog]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but here are my $0.02:

I personally have no moral objection to feeding live food to carnivorous creatures if it's what they are biologically meant to eat. It's nature and nature isn't always kind. Most people in the fish hobby use fish like guppies or rosy red minnows as feeders (which likely started due to being inexpensive to produce). In my eyes, feeding betta fry or any other non-endangered species is no different. The difference is only aesthetics and because they pretty and commonly kept as pets, people get in the mindset that the pretty fish are somehow superior and have more valuable lives. This can be summed up as cognitive dissonance.

However, whenever possible, I would agree that deformed specimens that likely wouldn't have the same quality of life would be the most ethical to feed off.

What shiverz said

 

[Kirstrog]

If that is you on your avatar, I love your blue hair.

I've just bought a cerise dye for mine.

(Sorry - nothing to do with fish, I know, de-railing)

Yes it's me thank you. Oh lovely, Is it more of the red tone? If so, you cannot go wrong with that colour. It's lovely

 

[Kirstrog]

I just couldn't deliberately feed something I'd bred myself. I know that fry birthed in a tank will get scoffed - such is life; but to breed to intentionally feed to another fish is . . . heartless. It reminds me of my fancy mice days - you had to breed many mice to get a show quality one, and people would often ask to buy my surplus for snake feed. I couldn't do it. Many went to pet shops; most I kept. I ended up with (literally) hundreds, which is why I stopped keeping and showing fancy mice.

I would be the same, I wouldn't sell my pet as food.

 

[Itsmemario]

I can see how it could bother someone since bettas are beautiful fish as pets but if it's their natural diet then I don't see anything wrong with it.

Years ago I had pet rabbits and now my dog eats rabbit occasionally(he's raw fed). That was a little disturbing for me in the beginning lol but all my dogs health problems went away once I fed him a biologically appropriate diet.
I know people that breed rabbits and other animals for their raw fed dogs and as long as they're taken care of and not tortured or something I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[LostBear]

Yes it's me thank you. Oh lovely, Is it more of the red tone? If so, you cannot go wrong with that colour. It's lovely

Bright pink - I'm waiting until I've had my hair cut (it's taken this long to get an appointment after lockdown) and then I'm going to colour it - cheer myself up!

 

[JuiceBox52]

Bright pink - I'm waiting until I've had my hair cut (it's taken this long to get an appointment after lockdown) and then I'm going to colour it - cheer myself up!

Cut it yourself theres a good tutorial on youtube that I used

 

[LostBear]

I can see how it could bother someone since bettas are beautiful fish as pets but if it's their natural diet then I don't see anything wrong with it.

Years ago I had pet rabbits and now my dog eats rabbit occasionally(he's raw fed). That was a little disturbing for me in the beginning lol but all my dogs health problems went away once I fed him a biologically appropriate diet.
I know people that breed rabbits and other animals for their raw fed dogs and as long as they're taken care of and not tortured or something I don't see anything wrong with it.

I've fed my dogs rabbit before, and they've caught them on walks, but I couldn't feed my pet rabbits (we've had rabbits and guinea pigs - and hamsters and gerbils, but not rats) to my dogs.

I know it's totally illogical, but to me, when you breed or purchase a living creature it is your responsibility and you are ethically bound to do the best you can to give it a good and happy life. Just the way my moral code works.

 

[LostBear]

Cut it yourself theres a good tutorial on youtube that I used

I've been down that road before - it didn't end well.

However, I have had my head shaved before, and I've been seriously thinking of going back to that. Men's barber, No2 cut, 5 quid - what's not to like?

 

[Kirstrog]

I can see how it could bother someone since bettas are beautiful fish as pets but if it's their natural diet then I don't see anything wrong with it.

Years ago I had pet rabbits and now my dog eats rabbit occasionally(he's raw fed). That was a little disturbing for me in the beginning lol but all my dogs health problems went away once I fed him a biologically appropriate diet.
I know people that breed rabbits and other animals for their raw fed dogs and as long as they're taken care of and not tortured or something I don't see anything wrong with it.

It's nothing to do with how pretty the fish is etc I could have a so called "ugly" fish but I still wouldn't breed it to just give healthy fry to other pets. I understand the food chain etc it's nature, I just don't like the thought of breeding for feeding when it comes to your own pets. I personally just couldn't do it, I'd rather buy food for my pets

 

[Flushable Pets]

I just couldn't deliberately feed something I'd bred myself. I know that fry birthed in a tank will get scoffed - such is life; but to breed to intentionally feed to another fish is . . . heartless. It reminds me of my fancy mice days - you had to breed many mice to get a show quality one, and people would often ask to buy my surplus for snake feed. I couldn't do it. Many went to pet shops; most I kept. I ended up with (literally) hundreds, which is why I stopped keeping and showing fancy mice.

I can understand that. I was raised among a bunch of cattle ranches and we hunted our own food. I also bred snakes for many years and bred our own rats for feeders. I never took any joy in killing anything and I would never be ok with keeping any animal in a stressful or unhealthy environment until the day came to feed them off. They deserve to be treated with the same respect and care that your pet deserves. Kind of like how I despise these commercial turkey barns they have in my area with thousands of birds in overcrowded barns with no room to move. THAT is NOT ok. If they are treating their fish in a similar fashion to the turkey barns, then I most definitely think that is cruel.

 

[JuiceBox52]

I can understand that. I was raised among a bunch of cattle ranches and we hunted our own food. I also bred snakes for many years and bred our own rats for feeders. I never took any joy in killing anything and I would never be ok with keeping any animal in a stressful or unhealthy environment until the day came to feed them off. They deserve to be treated with the same respect and care that your pet deserves. Kind of like how I despise these commercial turkey barns they have in my area with thousands of birds in overcrowded barns with no room to move. THAT is NOT ok. If they are treating their fish in a similar fashion to the turkey barns, then I most definitely think that is cruel.

This

 

[Kirstrog]

I've been down that road before - it didn't end well.

However, I have had my head shaved before, and I've been seriously thinking of going back to that. Men's barber, No2 cut, 5 quid - what's not to like?

Oh I love pink hair, I'm sure it'll look lovely nothing like a bit of hair dye to cheer yourself up. I'm forever dying my hair, I'm currently back to blonde to give my hair a bit of a rest so it can repair.
There's nothing better then having a shaved head no maintenance what so ever, I've had a grade 1 before, I shaved my head for charity years back now although I say there's nothing better I personally wouldn't want to have a shaved head again