Yinsheng Co2 Drop Tester

KPD

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Hi all
I was jsut wondering if anyone else was using the Yinsheng CO2 tester? I've just had mine delivered and the instructions seem to be saying to use aquarium water plus the indicator solution in it. Most other tests seem to suggest using a dKH 4 solution, whereas my aquarium water is a dKH of about 13. The indicator is a dark blue, so off the scale at the low CO2 end, if it working properly. I plan to set up CO2 injection over the next week or two, but don't want to be guided by a test that has no hope of working properly because the indicator is too well buffered (if this is indeed the case).
Thanks in advance for any suggestions
Kev
 
Hi all
I was jsut wondering if anyone else was using the Yinsheng CO2 tester? I've just had mine delivered and the instructions seem to be saying to use aquarium water plus the indicator solution in it. Most other tests seem to suggest using a dKH 4 solution, whereas my aquarium water is a dKH of about 13. The indicator is a dark blue, so off the scale at the low CO2 end, if it working properly. I plan to set up CO2 injection over the next week or two, but don't want to be guided by a test that has no hope of working properly because the indicator is too well buffered (if this is indeed the case).
Thanks in advance for any suggestions
Kev

They all say use tank water and solution. This is how they were originally meant to be used but it is not very accurate due to the water parameters being able to sway the result to false readings.

The 4dKH means that a 'known' controlled level of dKH gives you a more accurate measure as this should only be swayed by the CO2 as other contaminants other than gas should not be able to pass through the air vacuum.

The bromo blue test kit is also very important.

Andy
 
OK...I may invest in some dKH 4 solution to use with my test then....since I shall be using it to guide how much CO2 to add.
Thanks
Kev
 
I was wondering.....if it is possible simply to use tank water with a fairly random dKH in the drop tester (although not optimal)....why is there such a fuss about using EXACTLY 4dkh solution? Surely 3.5dkh or 4.5dkh or even 10dkh solution would be better than using my 13dkh tank water???
Kev
 
The reason we use 4dKH is that it goes green when there is 30ppm co2. Blue = below 30ppm, yellow = above 30ppm. If you have a higher KH then the colour change would be different. That's not to say you couldn't use a higher KH but if the water you used was 10dKH and it was green you be pumping in enough CO2 to kill the whole tank!!! You just have to work out what colour = 30ppm co2. The trouble is that the drop checker instructions never tell you this, so people try and get it green and wonder why their fish are gasping. Similarly, if you have a lower KH, say 1 or 2, you'd be into the yellow colour well before you got to 300pm, so you'd be running it too low. 4dKH it just useful due to the colours is gives, that's all :)

Sam
 
This is exactly right. The PPS Pro method on APC reccomends 15ppm in which case you would use 2dKH solution to achieve green for 15ppm.

Not a huge fan of the PPS Pro method and can't see the point in going for 15ppm when 30ppm has no effect on the fish. Just got to make sure that you are on the money with the CO2.

Another option would be to use 3dKH and then green would be 22.5ppm.

Whatever option you go with on the dKH, the key thing is to maintain consistency so if you chose a lower ppm as your target then you would need to maintain that lower level. The lower the level the higher the percentage of change if the CO2 tails off/runs out.

Andy
 
In defense of 15ppm, (not PPS Pro or rather PMDD instructions with a little PO4 added(you are welcomed to research this point)), 15ppm works very well if and only if you are limiting the rates of growth via the light or the nutrient nutrients, or both.

Example: 15ppm is adequate if you use say 1.5 W/gal of light and have non limiting nutrients.
It is also adequate if you use say 1 w/gal of light, then add a few hours, say 3 hours, of 3 w/gal then stop.

Another example where 15ppm is fine:
Strong PO4 limitation. This obviously is the linch pin slowing plant growth is this case. Adding all the CO2 in the world is not going to resolve the rate of growth nor increase CO2 critical demand if you are strongly PO4 limited and adding a small amoutn each day relative to everything else.

You could add 2-3-5X more CO2 and it would not matter.

Just because a few folks found they can use less CO2, is no surprise.
However, you and virtually everyone else in the web plant community knows that accurate measure of CO2 is a huge issue.

So who the heck knows if they really had 40-50ppm vs 30ppm or really have 15ppm of CO2 at all............
There's a huge amount of doubt with the measure of CO2 within the error ranges suggested.

I've found resolution in that.
I am going to use a LCO2 meter(these are $$$$), as I am pleased with the DO meters that use the same technology.
This provides accurate measure, likely about 1ppm error and does not rely on drop checker color, pH, or KH and has fast response times(>10min).

That + Licor light meter, and LDO O2 meter will allow much better analysis.

The other factor to consider is while water columns might be limiting or appear so, the sediment often is not. an example is ADA's sediments and the water columns appear limiting and very lean, but overall, the system is quite nutrient rich.

And getting back to 15ppm, you can see that the ADA measures cannot plausibly add to 15ppm given the pH/KH combos in any know ranges.

But if you consider the low light(1 w/gal, sometimes under or over a little), + the high noon blast for 2-4 hours, 15ppm does not seem particularly limiting at such light levels.

Failure to consider such global understandings about what grows an aquatic plant, can easily lead down a long path of poor assumptions. I see folks often change one thing and assume it does not affect the other :sick:
Do not do that!

You end up assuming things are the way they are for the wrong reasons.
Which is worse than algae :blush:

Same deal with a drop checker, they work, they are slow to respond(2-3 hours or so), they require you to tell/eyeball btw 0.2pH color units.

They have trade offs, but they are better for many and cheaper than pH meters etc.

I use higher nutrient levels so I do not have to wonder if I have other interactions that slows down CO2, or other growth parameters. I also use higher light levels to see how that influences nutrient demand and CO2 demand, there is a trend and it shows up in all research done on aquatic plant growth and limitations.

By providing non limiting growth parameters except for the parameter of interest, is the basic method to investigate plant growth. You may try and combine 2 or more parameters, but the results become harder to tell apart, and when folks cannot set up and single parameter test well, how are they going to do more complex stuff?

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Lots of information there :good:
My tank is 720 litres running on 160w t5 lighting plus a fair amount of natural light as the tank is in a conservatory. Even with the natural light I'm guessing that it is getting a medium amount of light, so I think I will go for about 15ppm CO2 to start and then play with nutrient additions to get good growth.

Whatever happens, my 4dKH solution has been ordered...and from what has been said I'll simply dilute it 50:50 before using it as a 2dKH solution.

Thanks
Kev
 
Yep to dilute is a simple equation of adding the correct percentage of 4dKH to the correct percentage of DI water.

If deciding on the 15ppm/2dKH then it is paramount that you keep your diffusion method working well.

With a glass/ceramic diffusor then weekly you should:

1 - Take diffusor out of tank
2 - Rinse under the tap
3 - Pour some neat thick bleach (unperfumed) on the disc (just enough to cover the disc) and leave for 5 mins
4 - Rinse under the tap
5 - Pour some more bleach on the disc and leave for 5 mins
6 - Rinse under the tap
7 - Put just enough water on the disc to cover it and add an equal amount of dechlor (much less if using pond dechlor) and leave for 10 minutes
8 - Rinse thoroughly under the tap.
9 - Re-attach and position.

Watch the diffusor and you will notice that for a couple of hours the CO2 will 'truly' be mist and look like smoke pouring out of the cup. This will settle into larger bubbles after a time.

I also pour a little dechlor into the tank above the diffusor just in case there is any bleach left.

If you use non ceramic methods like ladders then get a bottle brush or similar and thoroughly scrub it weekly.

With Reactors I think they need less maintenance but as I have never used one I am not sure on this or cleaning methods.

Wether using 1 or several diffusors you should position them where as little CO2 hits the surface as possible. This can take a fair amount of moving to find the best positions. Normally a good place is under the filter outlet so the bubbles rise and the filter flow pushes them around the tank.

I guess that with a tank your size you probably have several diffusors and a couple of filters so you should be able to get 1 under each filter outflow.

I would suggest you get 2 or more drop checkers for your size tank just to see that there are not areas that get less or more CO2 than others.

Good Luck
Andy
 
I was wondering if it would be possible to modify a powerhead such that the CO2 is delivered directly into the turning blade. I was hoping this would generate an extremely fine mist of bubbles that would then circualte around the tank. I have a whole box full of redundant powerheads from my reefkeeping days, so no additional expense.
Do you think this might work?
Kev
 

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