WooHoo New seahorse tank on the way...

[Dragonscales]

O.k, after agonising for months about what I want to do in regards to my new seahorse tank I finally have a plan of sorts. I would however apreciate any ideas/changes to what I have so far that any of you could think of. As this will be my first sw tank I am trying to go with something that optimises minimal fluctuations in ph, etc until I can get fully into the swing of things experience-wise. Besides, let's face it, it'd be less of a pain in the ass in regards to things going wrong to do it that way anyhow lol.

Firstly the tank I am getting is 2ft high by 18" by 18".

I am planning on getting hold of an undergravel filter tray (unsure if I should go with something almost the size of the tank or marginally smaller. I was thinking maybe 15" by 15" if I could find one, any ideas in regards to size would be apreciated) and wrapping shadecloth around it to create a plenum. On top of the plenum I will put some crushed coral (1 Inch), followed by another layer of shadecloth. Upon the top layer of shadecloth will go 3 inches of sugar grade sand made from marble.
Hopefully this will create a more stable ph from the crushed coral disolving and buffering the ph back up to 8.2, also with the added bonus of releasing calcium for if I deside to put corals in the tank. The empty void created under the sand will promote an oxygen depleted enviroment where anoxic bacteria will thrive and convert ammonia, nitrate and nitrite to nitrogen bubbles which in turn float to the top and disperse from the tank.

I plan on putting plants along the edges of the tank at the back and sides, not too much, just enough to form a nice border, this will also help oxygenate the tank as well as disperse harmful residues.

I plan on putting a piece of live rock towards the back of the tank in front of the back plants. I am unsure of whether I should sit it on the sand or if I should build a pvc frame to elevate it. There is alot of arguements on both sides of the fence from sources I have read so am interested to hear about your experiences in this matter. I am personally leaning slightly towards elevated to ensure better circulation, but as I said, I have reserved final decision at the moment until I actually hear some more on the matter.

Mechanic filtration will be acheived by a 570L p/h hang on filter. I am unsure if this is suitable or not for seahorses but then again, that's why I started this post, to hear other's ideas and suggestions on the setup. I can always add an internal powerhead later if I decide on getting corals, etc. At the moment though I think I will just stick with basics till I get a fair idea on everything. The hang on filter will be enough to turn over the water 3 times an hour, give or take. If it doesn't seem to do the job then I'll either upgrade or add another.

I am also unsure on whether or not to run a cheap skimmer as well but am leaning more towards one. I have read in alot of places that they don't get alot of waste out fast enough for the horses but I tend to think that unless you are doing 100% water changes every day then the long term effects of one would account for something.

As for cleanup crew, I have still got a fair whack of planning to do in regards to this, depending on what is available after I drive an hour or so to Geelong to be able to pick up the little critters as well. I know for sure that I want some bristleworms, a hermit crab or two, a couple of seacucumbers and perhaps a brittle star as well as a couple of shrimp. I am leaning more towards sand sifters to ensure my plenum setup functions correctly and there is a lack of sand clogging. As for the hermits, I only plan on getting the smaller janitor ones, don't want em eating my horses lol. Mantis shrimps would also be a defenant no-no as well, only smaller, peaceful shrimp would be added. I also plan to stay away from fire bristleworms as I have read alot of bad things about them stinging horses to death.

As for actual seahorses, I was thinking a pair of cb (capitive bred) Breviceps and a pair of Whitei. I am also contemplating a pair of cb pipefish.

 

[Navarre]

I hope you know how difficult serahorses are to keep? They are truely specialist fish and not for beginners.
Seahorses have a very small gut which cannot digest food properly, this means that they need almost constant feeding. This usually means that it must be live food as they are extremly hard to transfer to frozen etc. Because of the waste that they give off with have digested food (that wont be re-eaten as its no longer live) this will cause huge stress on ther filtration. An undergravel filter will get clogged up with this pretty quick IMO.

Lets look at a few things in particular...

Hopefully this will create a more stable ph from the crushed coral disolving and buffering the ph back up to 8.2, also with the added bonus of releasing calcium for if I deside to put corals in the tank. The empty void created under the sand will promote an oxygen depleted enviroment where anoxic bacteria will thrive and convert ammonia, nitrate and nitrite to nitrogen bubbles which in turn float to the top and disperse from the tank.

If we are talking about a Deep sand bed here then you will need closer to 6 or more inches. This also means the sand needs a huge amount of life within it which cannot be created by simply adding sand alone. You will need live rock to help seed the sand for this type of filtration and to be honest a deepsand bed is definately not a beginners tool, they are very difficult to tell if they are going wrong and this can wipe out an entire tank.
You wont get an oxygen poor envirnment with a sand bed much shallower. If there are no pods or worms to keep the sand moving either then this will clog the sand up and stifle it. Using this in conjunction with an undergravel fitler will also cause problems with the sand bed IMO.

As for later keeping corals.. this will cause major problems also. Coral reefs are not the natural habitate for a seahorse, they are weak swimmers and cannot swim against the huge flows that a reef will bring. Coral on the other hand ned high ciruclation to help keep themselves clean (usually a tank operates at 10x volume per hour minmum for circulation) this will just throw a seahorse around the tank like paper dolls.
Dont get me wrong, im not saying that it cant e done, just that its very difficult to attain.

I plan on putting plants along the edges of the tank at the back and sides, not too much, just enough to form a nice border, this will also help oxygenate the tank as well as disperse harmful residues.

Adding plants will cause PH drops at night. This might be kept to a minimum with your sand or live rock but there is no guarentee. i would monitor it very closely as these drops can be very fast and very devastating in small tanks.

I plan on putting a piece of live rock towards the back of the tank in front of the back plants. I am unsure of whether I should sit it on the sand or if I should build a pvc frame to elevate it.

Elevate it. All my liverock is placed on a reefrack as it greatly helps circulation. If its placed on the sand then you will get deadspots in the sand where bad gasses can accumulate.

Mechanic filtration will be acheived by a 570L p/h hang on filter. I am unsure if this is suitable or not for seahorses but then again, that's why I started this post, to hear other's ideas and suggestions on the setup. I can always add an internal powerhead later if I decide on getting corals, etc. At the moment though I think I will just stick with basics till I get a fair idea on everything. The hang on filter will be enough to turn over the water 3 times an hour, give or take. If it doesn't seem to do the job then I'll either upgrade or add another

I would use the filter and get rid of the undergravel. The problem you face with this though is they can be nitrate factories as there is no way for them to reduce the nitrate they accumulate. Liverock will have to work harder to de-nitrfy the filter as well as the nitrates that it produces itself.

I dont like skimmers much myself but in this situation i would definately run one and the best you can afford. You need absolute pure water quality and a good grade skimmer will remove waste before it actually becomes waste toa certain degree.

As for cleanup crew, I have still got a fair whack of planning to do in regards to this, depending on what is available after I drive an hour or so to Geelong to be able to pick up the little critters as well. I know for sure that I want some bristleworms, a hermit crab or two, a couple of seacucumbers and perhaps a brittle star as well as a couple of shrimp. I am leaning more towards sand sifters to ensure my plenum setup functions correctly and there is a lack of sand clogging. As for the hermits, I only plan on getting the smaller janitor ones, don't want em eating my horses lol. Mantis shrimps would also be a defenant no-no as well, only smaller, peaceful shrimp would be added. I also plan to stay away from fire bristleworms as I have read alot of bad things about them stinging horses to death

Bristelworms are fine. great work horses and good for the sand also.

Red legs are good (if a little lazy) and not very aggressive. If you can get zebra legs then they really do owrk hard and stay quite small. You need to aim for 1 cleanup crew per gallon (bristleworms dont count )

Brittle stars are ok but dont get the green ones as they will catch and eat fish, i guess a seahorse is real easy picking for them too.

Shrimps are ok.

Definately dont get sandsifters. they will sterilise your sand bed, if you are trying to get a living eco system in your sand bed then a sand sifter will seriously not help you here. Great for churning sand over though and keeping the sand clean. (I have 2 sand sifters in my main tank and they do a great job but let me kid you not, these are voracious predators ) Luckily i have a sump to keep the stuff i want out of harms way.

Um.. All bristleworms sting.

Cant comment on the species as i have never kept a seahorse, but as i talk to the people in the National Marine aquarium all the time (Plymouth UK) and they are breeding these species im merely passing on what i have been told via them.

Good luck should you wish to continue. Personally i would start out with my sights far lower as these are not forgiving fish to the beginner marine aquarists. )

Sorry to sound so negative, just my views (and the views of the Marine biologists in the national marine aquarium).

 

[Ed4567]

I would scrap the plenum idea and use a large amount of live rock as well as a good quality skimmer for filtration. Where mechanical filtration is concerned it may be useful to have an external filter however (and im guessing here due to having no personal experience) the currents created may be too strong for seahorses.

Don't mean to go off topic but Navarre can you explain this a bit further please:

Liverock will have to work harder to de-nitrfy the filter as well as the nitrates that it produces itself.

As im sure you are aware the nitrate is not created by the filter directly, but is the end product of aerobic bacteria using ammonia as an energy source inhabiting all surfaces in the aquarium but especially inside filters and on live rock. Therefore it would seem that the limiting factor on the amount of nitrate a mature system, assuming that the rate of denitrification stays constant, is the input of ammonia, and not the number of site for aerobic bacteria as you seem to suggest.

 

[Navarre]

Filters like these convert waste into nitrates very very efficiently. (I have a sand bed on one tank and its a complete nitrate factory).

The nitate is released into the water colum and there it sits until it is either diluted via water changes, used up by algea or mangroves or converted to NItrogen by liverock.

Live rock itself is a living organism, it creates i ts own nitrates as it has its own waste products to deal with. Because the amount of nitrtes produced in other filters are so efficient this means the live rock has to deal with the fish waste (nitrates) the nitrates from filters (as they catch food and waste that cant be reached to be eaten by cleanup crew) and of course its own nitrates. Therefore it works alot harder.
By not using such a filter means the waste products remain in the tank and can be dealt with via cleanup crews etc and thus not adding in such great quantities to the nitrate buildup.
If you could see the interiror of my fluidised sand bed filter you would see all sorts of food and pits bad pieces floating around in the filter and this cant be reached by hermits or pods etc. This will rot and convert to larger amounts of nitrates rather than a cleanup dealing with it and making less nitrate.

 

[Dragonscales]

I agree that they are a specialist fish, especially the wc ones. I am only keeping cb ones which have been weaned onto frozen foods and are alot hardier. Alot of people seem to think that because they look delicate that they are, this is not the case. If you keep the water parametres right and feed them properly they can be more hardy than alot of reef fish.

They do need a slightly weaker current, but don't like no current at all like alot of people think as well. A fair current can actually be beneficial, as long as there is a quiet part of the tank that they can rest in and they aren't blown all over the place.

As for the undergravel filter, I aren't hooking it up to anything, I am turning it into a plenum. For this I will only be using the tray. With a plenum, the sand bed must be 4 inches to work properly, any more and it has a negative effect on the tank, any less and it isn't effective enough. There has been alot of research into the use of plenum style sandbeds and their use is becoming more widespread due to alot of people finding them an effective filter. They have a distinct advantage over a dsb in that they take the process one step further, converting the nitrate into nitrogen bubbles which float to the surface and out of the tank altogether.

In regards to the plants lowering the p.h, this is another reason why I am going with a plenum that utilises crushed coral. As the p.h drops below a certain level the coral begins to dreak down into it's base elements which drives the p.h back up to 8.2. I don't plan on having alot of plants anyway, just enough to give a sparse, but nice, border around the sides and back of the tank.

I know all bristleworms sting, but most people keeping seahorses seem to have problems with fire bristleworms, so I aren't going to take the risk of keeping them.

There is a good forum out there to learn more about keeping seahorses, pipefish and other related stuff, which is made and run by comercial seahorse breeders. I learnt alot from them lately and have been researching for about a year in every aspect I can think of. This tank isn't a decision I have made lightly. The cb seahorse industry in Oz is one of the leading authorities in the world and know what they are doing 110%. Aquaculture is a very serious matter in Oz and there are alot of stringent laws in place to stop the mistreatment of animals. I have complete faith in keeping them based on what I have learnt from researching and heard from others keeping them. I have also seen alot of pictures of their horses and trust me, they are all exceptionally healthy and well looked after. The main problem about keeping them comes from people listening to myths and heresay rather than actually investigating the matter themselves.