Why wont the white spot go away?

[CRS]

Hi,

So earlier today i started whitespot treatment for the 3rd time, i've lost a few fish over the last couple of weeks,
I have tried another product and i'm still not having any luck, today 2 cardinals have died and a few others are struggling to swim, any ideas?

I have stopped using plant fertiliser and i haven't used any since before the first treatment.

Thanks,

Craig

 

[Byron]

What treatments have you used, from the first until now? The safest treatment is to simply raise the temperature of the tank water to 30C (86F) for two weeks. In 99% of the time this is effective. And safer for most all fish than using any additives--cardinal tetras for example like all characins have a sensitivity to chemicals and drugs. Heat by contrast is not an issue for this fish.

 

[Colin_T]

Pictures of the fish so we can confirm white spot?

Do you have carbon in the filter?

Are you adding enough medication to treat the tank's water volume?

----------------------
Before you treat the tank, do the following things.

Work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.
You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the bottom of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate. The water change and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

 

[CRS]

What treatments have you used, from the first until now? The safest treatment is to simply raise the temperature of the tank water to 30C (86F) for two weeks. In 99% of the time this is effective. And safer for most all fish than using any additives--cardinal tetras for example like all characins have a sensitivity to chemicals and drugs. Heat by contrast is not an issue for this fish.

For the first dose i used protozin - White spot and fungus, for the second and third i am using waterlife white spot and fungus.
Another couple more cardinals have died, the cardinals and red phantom tetras don't look great.

As for the temperaute it's currently set at 26C but i can try increasing the temperature.

Pictures of the fish so we can confirm white spot?

Do you have carbon in the filter?

Are you adding enough medication to treat the tank's water volume?

----------------------
Before you treat the tank, do the following things.

Work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.
You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the bottom of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate. The water change and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

I'll take some photos shortly,

As for the filter i have the Fluval FX6 i haven't added anything else so everything is standard and came with the filter.
The tank is 520L, it's full of wood and dragon stone so would be difficult removing everything as it's full of plants, i Aquascaped it over christmas.

 

[Colin_T]

Don't raise the water temperature if you are using chemical based medications because the combination of chemicals and heat will remove most of the oxygen from the water. Either use chemicals or heat, but not both. Just leave the temperature on 26C.

You need to check the filter and see if it has carbon in. Carbon is a black granulated substance that removes chemicals from the water.

You are better off staying with one type of medication if you can. Waterlife Protozin is fine for treating white spot.

 

[Essjay]

For the first dose i used protozin - White spot and fungus, for the second and third i am using waterlife white spot and fungus.

Could you clarify this please - Waterlife's whitespot & fungus medication is Protozin.

 

[CRS]

Don't raise the water temperature if you are using chemical based medications because the combination of chemicals and heat will remove most of the oxygen from the water. Either use chemicals or heat, but not both. Just leave the temperature on 26C.

You need to check the filter and see if it has carbon in. Carbon is a black granulated substance that removes chemicals from the water.

You are better off staying with one type of medication if you can. Waterlife Protozin is fine for treating white spot.

Could you clarify this please - Waterlife's whitespot & fungus medication is Protozin.

In the attached photo the bottle on the left is what i were initially using, i am now using the larger bottle on the right, but still no luck.

I'm on day 3 again, about 6 cardinals and a red phantom have died since i last posted.

I've attached some photos of the fish to see what you think, not the best photos.

I will take the TX6 apart and show you guys everything thats inside the filter, i've added carbon previously to help remove tannins from the wood, i removed the carbon prior to using the treatment first time round.

 

[CRS]

Ok, this is everything inside the FX6!

 

[Essjay]

Those are the same product, just a different label. They both have the word Protozin written on them. The left one with the image of clown loaches has the name across the top of the label; the one on the left with the large + has the word vertically in the blue strip just below the green price label.
Protozin contains malachite green and copper sulphate.

The filter photos show two black sponges, and black sponges are often impregnated with carbon - are either of yours carbon sponges?


I would stop using the medications, do a large water change to remove most of it, then turn the heater up to raise the water temp to 30 deg C as measured by a thermometer in the water (not stuck on the outside). Leave it at 30 deg for 2 weeks.

 

[Byron]

I fully agree with @Essjay . Copper-based and malachite green-based medications are very rough on characins (tetras, etc). Heat is always the better and safer option for this family of fishes. Large water changes are essential to remove as much of these meds as possible. From the photos the fish are far into the problem, and you might or might not lose more, but the heat will kill the ich.

 

[CRS]

Those are the same product, just a different label. They both have the word Protozin written on them. The left one with the image of clown loaches has the name across the top of the label; the one on the left with the large + has the word vertically in the blue strip just below the green price label.
Protozin contains malachite green and copper sulphate.

The filter photos show two black sponges, and black sponges are often impregnated with carbon - are either of yours carbon sponges?


I would stop using the medications, do a large water change to remove most of it, then turn the heater up to raise the water temp to 30 deg C as measured by a thermometer in the water (not stuck on the outside). Leave it at 30 deg for 2 weeks.

The bottle on the left says to use 1ml per 10l, the larger bottle says 2.5ml per 75l

I'm not sure if they're carbon, is it safe to remove the black sponges?

What percentage water change would you recommend to do?
I assume giving the filter a good clean will help to?

Thanks

EDIT: I guess removing the black sponges is pointless if i am to turn the heat up instead.

 

[Essjay]

A lot of companies make larger bottle sizes for pond use, and they are usually more concentrated.

Looking at the FX manual it says the the FX6 should have:
6 x foams - these are the white sponges that go round the inside edges of the baskets.
2 x biofoams - these are black sponges with raised lumps all over. They don't contain carbon. It's the one in image 184301
2 x ceramic rings
1 x carbon pad - that's a flat black sponge with no lumps on it, the one in image 184254. This should be removed when using medication as carbon removes meds from the water.

I would empty as much water as you can, leaving enough so that the fish can still swim. If you have a spare carbon sponge, you could put that in the filter to help remove the last of the medication.
Cleaning the filter will help to remove any parasites in the media - but don't overdo it.

The reason for removing as much of the medication as you can by water changes and possible new carbon is because meds lower the oxygen content of water, and heat does too. Both together lowers the oxygen content quite a lot.