Why can't I keep catfish?!

[larmer120]

I have tried, for the second time now, to house cats. For the second time, they have developed Ich and died during treatment. They all seem to do fine for a week and then... BOOM! I don't understand why I have so much trouble with them. My tank is 30 US gallons, Ph is 7.0, GH is 9 ,KH is 5, ammonia is 0 while the Nitrite levels are <0.3. Over the last 2 attempts I've lost a total of 6 Pictus, one Columbian (white tip) Shark and a Pimelodus blochii. All have been kept in the same way, with plenty of space for both swimming and hiding. Any ideas would be helpfull as these are beautifull fish that I would love to have.

 

[smithrc]

what other fish do you have?

Whats your tank temp at?

 

[larmer120]

what other fish do you have?

Whats your tank temp at?

Temp is at 78' F and I'm running a Penguin 125 bio-wheel filter. The first time I had 3 Pictus, Columbian, red tail shark and a L021 pleco. This time I had 3 Pictus, blochii, an as of yet unidentified pleco and some guppies. Between the pictus and blochii, there are only 2 guppies left and the pleco.

 

[CFC]

The usual cause of whitespot (ICH) in pims is a drop in temperature, could your tank be cooling off at night when the outside temperature drops? Also i see you have a NITRITE level of 0.3, nitrites should always be at 0, pimeloids are naked catfish (meaning they have no scales) and are very sensative to nitrogen pollution, they should only ever be introduced into a mature and stable tank which has been set up at least 6 months.

When treating for the ICH did you add any salt as part of the treatment? Salt is a major killer of pimeloid catfishes which hail from the tottally salt devoid waters of the amazon basin. Salt should never be added to a tank containing pimeloid catfishes for any reason.

 

[Vip]

Mark me if im wrong CFC but ICK also lives in gravel doesnt it? So when doing a water change to treat ICK do you vacume it? cause if you dont it might just be hiding at the bottom of your tank.

 

[Teelie]

what other fish do you have?

Whats your tank temp at?

Temp is at 78' F and I'm running a Penguin 125 bio-wheel filter. The first time I had 3 Pictus, Columbian, red tail shark and a L021 pleco. This time I had 3 Pictus, blochii, an as of yet unidentified pleco and some guppies. Between the pictus and blochii, there are only 2 guppies left and the pleco.

FYI... Colombians go from Fresh to Brackish to Salt in their lifetimes often becoming 100% full Saltwater fish, Pictus can be sensitive fish and grow fairly large at around 8". The Red Tail is probably best kept as a loner. They don't like other fish like them.

So the next time you're looking for catfish. Most of what you listed aren't what I'd call "beginner" fish or even early intermediate level.

 

[CFC]

Im not sure about the parasite lurking in the gravel but when in its free swimming form it certainly inhabits the water column before it attaches itself to a host.
I personally am of the belief that parasites and diseases are always present within the aquarium and just wait for a opertunity to attack a weakened or stressed fish, much in the same way as we get colds and viruses if we become run down . Using a UV steriliser on the tank would seriously reduce the risk of a outbreak of disease as they zap all water born parasites before they get the chance to find a host, regular water changes also help to reduce the risk but not to the same extent

 

[Teelie]

I know Ich/Ick can stay on plants for quite sometime and I think it will also stay in gravel and ornaments though I'm not so sure on that. The sterilizer may be a good idea but you don't want it to be set up too close to where your bacteria colonies are which is unfortunately also the best place to have it. Most of the ones I've seen go inside the filter where they kill everything that comes through the water, including beneficial bacteria.

 

[CFC]

You can get inline UV sterilisers that go inbetween the return pipe of a external filter, as the filtered water passes through the steriliser on its way back to the tank all the water born parasites and any free floating algea is destroyed before it reaches the tank.

 

[Teelie]

I assumed there were some like that though I've never seen any. I may look into one myself for a quarantine tank in the future.

 

[larmer120]

CFC Posted on Jun 7 2004, 06:23 AM
The usual cause of whitespot (ICH) in pims is a drop in temperature, could your tank be cooling off at night when the outside temperature drops?

My tank temp is stable. I've been watching it for about a month to make sure it isn't fluctuating mor than one degree in a 24 hour period.

Also i see you have a NITRITE level of 0.3, nitrites should always be at 0, pimeloids are naked catfish (meaning they have no scales) and are very sensative to nitrogen pollution

I did take into account that they are scaleless, but I understood that nitrite levels under 0.8 were "surviveable" for most fish? On the other hand, my test kit doesn't give me a TRUE 0.0 level. It ranges from, less than 0.3, 0.3, 0.8 and up. Mine being less than 0.3, I assumed it was fine.

they should only ever be introduced into a mature and stable tank which has been set up at least 6 months.

This I wasn't aware of. My tank has been up and cycled for two months now, with weekly water changes and daily checks for NH4, NO2, Ph and GH/KH. My NH4 is still 0, NO2 is under 0.3, Ph is 7.0 and GH 9/KH 5. The only change, since the initial NH4 and NO2 spikes at the begining of the cycling, has been my GH/KH both going down by one.

When treating for the ICH did you add any salt as part of the treatment? Salt is a major killer of pimeloid catfishes which hail from the tottally salt devoid waters of the amazon basin. Salt should never be added to a tank containing pimeloid catfishes for any reason.

This is disturbing. I found a web site that said to add one teaspoon/liter of non-iodized salt and raise the temp to 82' F for 48 hours. This was their treatment method for ich in the pictus. However, I did not do this. I was using "Ick Guard II", by Jungle, for weak and scaleless fish. It contains formaline(37%), victoria green, nitromersol and acriflavine. Unfortunately I added aquarium salt to the tank and every water change.

The only other chemicals that have gone into the tank are my conditioner, "Stress Coat (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals), and a Ph neutralizer by Seachem. These are added during water changes and only to the new water going in.

So far it looks like I killed my fish.

 

[larmer120]

Vip Posted on Jun 7 2004, 06:36 AM
Mark me if im wrong CFC but ICK also lives in gravel doesnt it? So when doing a water change to treat ICK do you vacume it? cause if you dont it might just be hiding at the bottom of your tank.

Yes, I am vacuuming the gravel.

Teelie Posted on Jun 7 2004, 06:39 AM
FYI... Colombians go from Fresh to Brackish to Salt in their lifetimes often becoming 100% full Saltwater fish, Pictus can be sensitive fish and grow fairly large at around 8". The Red Tail is probably best kept as a loner. They don't like other fish like them.

The Colombian, I am now aware, was a big mistake. Not only for the water chemistry, but its size. The red tail was shown to be a compatible take mate. He kept to himself and didn't bother anyone. Furthermore, all of my research showed the pictus to be an "EASY" fish to care for and only grew to between 4 and 6 inches in an aquarium. Therfor I felt it was a good choice at the time. This time however, I felt another pimelodid would be better. I found out, just recently, that the blochii has a tendancy to be aggressive towards others of its species and probably stressed the pictus at night when I wasn't looking.

As all of you have mentioned, I will look into a UV steralizer.

I would like some input on what I should do to make my tank suitable for the pimelodes. They are the only cats that don't get overly large, that I realy like.

Thanks for all of your posts, however disheartening thay have been for me to see that I murdered my fish, I hope to learn more as these are gorgeous creatures and deserve a good home.

 

[larmer120]

One more question, at the moment, for the misinformed. Since I was instructed by my LFS to use the aquarium salt, how do I now rectify the problem? Will water changes alone do the trick or have I ruined the tank for any further attempts at keeping cats?

 

[CFC]

Im afraid that the most likely cause for the demise of your catfish was the addition of salt to the aquarium IMO salt should never be used in a freshwater aquarium apart from occasionally for medicinal purposes with fully scaled fish, save the salt for brackish and marine aquariums where it belongs. Pims are not a difficult group of catfishes to care for but they do have a few requirements above the normal community type fish, i would certainly incourage you to try again with them once your tank has been set up a little longer.

In the first 6 months of a aquariums life the water parameters can be quite unstable with small ammonia and nitrite spikes occuring when new fish are added and after water changes and changes to the pH occur as organic matter breaks down and acidifies the water, after around 6 months the bacteria within the filter media and hard surfaces of the tank should have bedded in properly and the pH becomes much more stable.

To make your tank perfect for pimeloid catfishes you should supply a sand substrate and pleanty of bogwood for hiding places, a unplanted tank is prefferable as they do not enjoy the bright lighting associated with planted tanks, if you use a soft lighting tube such as a Arcadia tropical lamp then your pims will be much more active. Prefferably keep the water soft and slightly acidic but this isnt absolutely nessesary, as long as the pH is kept below the high 7's and the hardness is under 20 GH it will be ok. Regular water changes are a must to keep nitrate levels down as pimeloid species are sensative to nitrogen pollution, a elevated nitrate level can cause the barbels to rot and stress the fish leaving them open to infections such as ICH and velvet. Feed your pims a diet of meaty foods and catfish pellets intended for carnivorous fish, it is best to feed them just two good meals a week with each feeding making the catfish look like it has swallowed a marble, do not feed the fish again until the stomach area has returned to normal, usually 2 to 3 days later.

 

[CFC]

One more question, at the moment, for the misinformed. Since I was instructed by my LFS to use the aquarium salt, how do I now rectify the problem? Will water changes alone do the trick or have I ruined the tank for any further attempts at keeping cats?

A few large water changes with fresh unsalted water will dilute the tank down to normal levels, id suggest 30% every other day until you have recycled the tank volume twice.

The cardinal rule with any lfs is do not trust a word they say unless you have 100% faith in their knowlege of fish and fish keeping through being able to confirm their advice with other experienced fish keepers. Many shops advise the use of salt in FW as it is another product you will have to buy and keep on buying if you believe it is benefitial for your fish and continue to add it with water changes. The only additive that you need to have is a good water conditioner to neutralise chlorine and heavy metals in your tapater.