Why Are They Dieing?

[Nurse_Sarah]

Hi everyone,

I recently posted about a cycling question.

The last water change I did was 5 days ago... it was an 80% change. at that time i was getting ammonia as zero, nitrites and nitrate were high.

I have not done a water change recently because of work, (hospital, 4 days of 12 hour shifts)... come home and the last thing i feel like doing is changing water

Anyways, i come home tonight.. and a fish is dead. I notice red streaks or blotches on some, red gills.

Ammonia is almost 0... i wouldnt even say its not close to 0.6
I cannot get a reading for nitrite OR nitrate... im confused... my fish are showing signs of ammonia poisoning... but ammonia is at 0??? Why do i not have reading for nitrite or nitrate, especially if i havent changed water for a while...?

Any advice? THANKS

 

[creeker]

I would do another big water change. It's either ammonia or nitrites. I would do it as soon as possible. How far into the cycle are you?

 

[Nurse_Sarah]

I would do another big water change. It's either ammonia or nitrites. I would do it as soon as possible. How far into the cycle are you?

4 weeks... with fish.

I am unsure of why I am getting zero readings for everything with my test kit.. seems odd to me.

I am going to leave it tonight, and do an 80% water change tomorrow, i just removed the dead platy... everyone else seems happy, my one guppy looks a bit lethargic, pretty skinny too. the rest look fine and are not acting weird in any way.

 

[creeker]

I would do another big water change. It's either ammonia or nitrites. I would do it as soon as possible. How far into the cycle are you?

4 weeks... with fish.

I am unsure of why I am getting zero readings for everything with my test kit.. seems odd to me.

I am going to leave it tonight, and do an 80% water change tomorrow, i just removed the dead platy... everyone else seems happy, my one guppy looks a bit lethargic, pretty skinny too. the rest look fine and are not acting weird in any way.

What about the ones with red streaks, blotches, and red gills? There's got to be nitrites in there if it's only been four weeks.

 

[Nurse_Sarah]

Well see thats why i am confused...

I tested last week and my ammonia was 0.. but nitrites and -ates were super high.. off the charts. So i did a huge water change.

So how can they be reading zero...??? its a false negative obviously.

 

[creeker]

OK. So how big is this tank? How many fish? Did you check the PH as well, just to make sure that didn't crash? It shouldn't in such a new tank, but you never know.

 

[Nurse_Sarah]

OK. So how big is this tank? How many fish? Did you check the PH as well, just to make sure that didn't crash? It shouldn't in such a new tank, but you never know.

pH is 7.0... tank is 16 gallon... 8 fish in there, 3 platy, 4 neons, 1 cory

 

[creeker]

I find it odd that you are losing platies and the Neons are ok. How many fish have you lost from this?

 

[orandas]

what water conditioner are you using with your water changes? i ask because if you using prime and the api test kit - the results are unreliable. The api test kit is salicyte(?) based. Either get seachem test kit(pricey) with prime or try amquel with api test kit.Also if using prime go for the x5 doseage(check instructions).i had a good old chat with seachem about their prime.And they sent me a nice apologetic goodie bag.

Frankly toss the tests - the fishes conditions are the "real test results"

Your situation sounds familiar - my forced(long story) first fish-in cycle 2 months ago - will never forget it - a war zone - me v the water - eventually got thru it - there were casulties though.

definate signs of ammonia poisioning.

whatever you do, do huge daily water changes.

feed only the bare minimum to sustain the cycling, and not their tummies - they can last 2wks without feeding, but the cycling cannot.

in such water conditions, they will act out, and some take it out on each other,you don't want injured/bullied fish in uncycled water conditions.If it happens, separate them with breeders nets.

it sounds like you're in the 2nd phase - with both ammonia & nitrite levels above zero - if there are gonna be any fatalities or casulties - it wud be at this stage - so keep a look out.

 

[DrRob]

Aye, sad to say that this occasionally happens.

Make sure that your test kits are properly shaken up, some people have had trouble with the nitrate test settling.

I agree it's a false negative. I wouldn't throw the tests away, although I agree with the sentiment behind the statement.

Do the water change, hopefully all should pick up.

I wonder if the issue is that the neons are smaller. Although usually more sensitive they'll suffer from the low oxygen problems that gill irritation would cause later than a larger fish.

 

[orandas]

Api test kits works fine (not combined with prime though).

My beef is with prime (yes everyone raves about it), it messes salicyte based test kits up (eg api test kit), and it never protected my fishes, even at 5x - their maximum doseage protection.First and only time that i tried it was during the fish-in cycle - when the fishes really needed the prime to neutralise/convert the free ammonia & nitrite.Nada.

I tried both the liquid & powder version.They were from seachem's official distributor. i even had the seachem ammonia alert indicator placed inside the aqaurium - nada - false readings.

in the past 3 yrs i had the seachem ammonia alert indicator in the tank and used stress coat for water changes, no probs with readings.

Then heard about prime - bad experience, i don't get its popularity. Oh well i tried it....move on.

 

[Tizer]

You dont rely on a product like Prime to over come issues with Ammonia, you rely on it to dechlorinate your tap water at a fraction of the cost of other products. That is the reason why it is so popular, nothing else.

 

[orandas]

... at a fraction of the cost of other products. That is the reason why it is so popular, nothing else.

thats another oddity i had with it,my bottle of the powder form 250g was suppose to last 50,000 gallons?! Nada.Gone.didn't extend beyond 1 month, at daily doses(water changes).i had a tiny spoon - "1pinch=1ml" - markings on it, and i was only using a fraction of that spoon. I had all the measurements/doses pre-written down.

when i first bought it, i too was sucked into that 'wow its gonna really last'.

i better make it clear that, that i'm only giving my experience with prime the product.

Seachem's customer service was excellent.

ps as it affects test kits, and requires you to use their test kit - have you seen the price of their test kits compared to api?

...That is the reason why it is so popular, nothing else...

In that case, they should change their words, they along with amquel claim "...converts ammonia into a safe,non-toxic form....used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicty..." quote from their bottle.

 

[orandas]

another quote from this empty bottle,

"...use fish to gauge toxicty reduction as test kits will still show presence of nitrite/nitrate even when detoxified"

so you have to use their expensive test kits to really know the results.

But since most people use the cheaper api test kits, and the test results aren't reliable, how do you know how much ppm to detoxify against?

when my api tests came back with a funny shade of 0.5ppm - i thought ok, roughly detoxify against 0.5ppm. When that didn't work cos the fishes look bedraggled, mid-month, i thought lets up the dose, their bottle claim max 5x dose is safe....... i tried that.......guess what nada....fish still look bedraggled.

my fishes never looked like that with a simple water conditioner.

 

[Tizer]

Its a bit like the bottled biological liquid sold by shops which claim to instantly cycle your filter. ya right.

Dont believe everything thats written on the bottle.