White Spot or Fin Rot??

[Elisabeth83]

Hi everyone from Sweden!!

I have a new 5 week old tank. I thought I knew everything I needed to know about a tank until I found this website and started reading about cycling etc. After filling the tank adding 4 live plants, de-chlorinating the water, adding aquarium salt to minimize stress as well as adding plant fertalizer I let the tank sit on it's own with a filter,heater, etc for about a week. I then went to the pet shop and purchased 6 fish (2 sailfin mollies, 2 swordfish and 2 sucker fish). Everything seemed good for that week and a half so I went back and was only going to purchase 2-4 thinking I shouldn't add more. I picked out 2 dwarf gouramies and 2 guppies. I thought that was all I should get but then when I told the lady there that I had a 22 gallon fish tank with only 6 other fish in it she said it would be fine if I picked out somemore. I ended up picking out 2 kissing gouramies. After about a week I noticed my fish were scratching on the bottom of the gravel and darting weirdly. I immidiately knew it was white spot because I've had this problem with another tank I owned in the past. Anyways I went a read a bunch of information bought the treatment for parasite diseases (white spot ) and have been treating it every other day for about 2 weeks. I read on a number of websites that you should treat it for up to minimum 10 days and 1 guy even said he treats his tank for 16 days just to make sure he's treated the whole white spot cycle. I underdose the tank as I have the sucker fish well actually 1 has died so I only have 1 left. The days I treat the tank I do a 15-20% water change with a gravel cleaner. All the fish within the first days of treatment were great. I thought everything was fine and was happy. I did loose a male guppy but that was because I had a male beta fish in the tank and he attacked him in the night. I did take the beta out straight away to a bowl. I also lost the sucker fish as I said before because I used the full dose of the medication. Also 1 male swordfish died but I have no idea why he seemed healthy. So all my fish were doing great and then I noticed that the 2 kissing gouramies were not eating and started to get cloudy eyes. I read that they are super sensitive to high amonia levels but as I am doing the water changes already I thought that was enough. I thought both were getting better when I noticed that the one gourami was super thin and swimming near the top of the water. But in the next couple of days he came back to life and was actually eating flakes I dropped in. I thought I was on the road to recovery but then about 3 days ago I noticed his tail shredded and this morning it was even more shredded and he was swimming all weird like his body was paralyzed so sadly I decided to euthanize him The other kissing gourami is active and alert but he has white spots on his fins especially on his tail. The thing is though I am wondering if it is fin rot and not white spot? I am not sure what to do at this point as I see no other spots on the other fish....they are all acting fine eating flakes, wafers , freezed bloodworms and once a week cucumber. I am wondering if I should stop treating for white spot and treat for fin rot instead??

I live in Sweden so I am not sure how the water here is here compared to in the States but I was advised by the pet shop that I did not need a PH kit or to add any PH up or down as the water in my area is good. I also have never heard of any of these kits I have read about on this site.

If anyone can help I'd be very appreciative!!

Thanks, Elisabeth in SWEDEN

 

[Elisabeth83]

I thought I should mention that I don't overfeed my fish. I noticed that it looks like I feed all of those things at one time but I dont. In the morning I feed a tiny pinch or 2 of tropical flakes. In the evening I break off 2-3 small pieces off the algae wafer and about 1-2 times a week I drop in 2 small pieces of frozen bloodworms and about once a week I put in a little piece of cucumber.

Thanks!!
Elisabeth

 

[cutechic]

First of all, you may want to do daily water changes (20-30%) to reduce the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in the tank. This will prolong your cycle, but will lessen the harmful effects these levels have on your fish.

If the white spots are primarily on your fish's bodies, it is most likely ich (white spot). If it is fin rots, the edges of the fins will be jagged and darkened (except in advanced cases, where the edges of the fin may become white and look like fungus). It is also possible that your fish have both ich and fin rot. I found that raising the temperature of the water to 82 degrees and doing daily 40% water changes for 10 days gets rid of the ich. Salt also helps, but since you have a suckerfish you cannot use it, because it will harm all scaleless fish. I'm not sure what fin rot medications are available in Europe, but I'm sure some other members could help you out on that one.

Try to take a water sample to your lfs to test- it is important to know what your water parameters are, and most lfs will do this free of charge.

 

[Elisabeth83]

Hi again,

Because the kissing gourami is white I can't tell if it has spots on it's body. All I can see are 3 larger white spots near the base of it's tail and a couple smaller white spots on it's fins. The gourami that I put down also looked the same and then it's tail shredded all on the ends. Really jagged shreds. Early when I got the 2 gouramies they were friends then the one bullied the one that has died but for the past week they were buddies and swam with eachother. So I don't think the other one nipped it's tail off. I didn't notice tail was darker on the edges...so that's why I am really confused if it fin rot or what. None of the other fish have this.

Because I have the sucker fish I haven't been doing the full doses that the white spot medication says to do because I read that high doses can hurt scaleless fish. Now I just read that if I don't do the full dosage that the fish may become immune to it. Should I keep treating for white spot and begin using full doses or should I stop using the white spot and start treating for fin rot instead? I can't use both medications at once can I?

I'll start doing the daily water changes like you suggested. Should I do 20-30% or 40%? Is 40% is too much? Will I shock them and then they will become more stressed and get sicker?

I'm just very confused as I have been doing the white spot treatments now for about 2 weeks and all the fish look great but just that gourami still has the white spots. He's always scared as well ...anytime I get near the tank he hides. He also is always at the bottom and I don't see him eat ever. Maybe he eats at night??

Elisabeth

 

[ger87410]

Be carefull when adding salt. IME when I had the sg above 1.000 the water irritated the fish skin enough that they were scratching. I reduced the sg and they haven't scratched since. I put half the dosage of salt and came up with a sg of 1.001. Now it's hovering at about .995.

 

[ger87410]

Also, water parameters? It's starting to sound like nitrite poisoning.

 

[Elisabeth83]

Also, water parameters? It's starting to sound like nitrite poisoning.

I have no idea what water parameters means??

 

[ger87410]

I mean you ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings. Those are your water parameters rated in Parts per million. U need to get a test kit to find out this stuff. U'll probably fins your nitrite or ammonia high. Frequent water changes is the remedy to that. Check your tap water and make sure that there is no ammonia/nitrite/nitrate in it and be sure to use dechloronizer. My tap water has a ton of ammonia in it so I have to specially treat it over night before I can use my tap water.

 

[Elisabeth83]

Hi again,
Alright I will go to my lfs today and ask about ammonia/nitrite/nitrate test kit. I have been doing 15 -20% water changes every other day because I know about Ammonia levels etc. Now I got advice earlier from cutechic to do 40% changes daily so I will begin to do that. How long should I do the 40% changes for? Because most people do like 15-20% weekly when there tank is healthy? I was just reading on another forum another person was having similar to the problem I am having in that only 1 fish is infected and the rest are healthy and all that person did was go to her lfs ask what to do and the guy there who has had fish for 20 years said to just up the temp to 28/82 and she said once she did that after a couple of days the one infected fish was back to normal. She didn't add any medication. None of my other fish have any spots what so ever....none of them are scraping on the gravel anymore either.

I am starting to wish I never bought the kissing gouramies in the first place

Thanks for your help!

 

[ger87410]

I would only do a 25% (round-a-bouts) water change daily. I only do the large water changes when the level is VERY high. The ammonia and nitrite is food for good bacteria in your tank, so you don't want to get rid of all their food. The person who had the similar problem might have had high nitrites/ammonia also. When I have a problem with my fish I look at the water's chemistry first and foremost for a possible cause. I normally see parameters outta wack. First thing would bee to test your water. Take a cup or so with you to the lfs and have them test it. Most places do it for free.

Forgot to mention that I only do daily water changes until the tank is fully cycled. Then I do water change every week or 2.

 

[Elisabeth83]

I just did 20-25% water change and did the half dose treatment again for white spot. This is day 13 that I have been doing the treatments. How much longer do you recommend that I keep doing the treatments? Water temp is on 28-29 right now.

My boyfriend also mentioned that to me that changing too much water would get rid of good bacteria.

How long is a cycle? I hear about cycling your tank but I've never really read how long that takes? My tank has been going for about 4 ½-5 weeks now. When I do the water changes I use one of those gravel cleaner things.

Once the tank is cycled you said you only do water changes every week or two. How much water do you take out? Still 25%? I've read a lot about water changes and everyone seems to have a different opinion on it. I think 15-20% per week would be the best choice though?

What are the major signs of high ammonia in the tank?? My water is clear, fish are active...no burn marks on them ..except the gourami's eyes are a bit cloudy. That probably is a sign of high ammonia?

1 more question...if my tank is suffering from high ammonia levels...the only thing to do really is do frequent water changes right? I've read you can add chemicals or medications and that levels it out but only temporarily and that some people don't recomend it?

Thanks for your help!!

 

[ger87410]

I try to never ever use chemicals unless I have to. I only treat ick as long as I see they have it. I keep the temp high though for a while longer. The length of the cycle all depends on how much beneficial bacteria you start out with in the tank. If you provide bacteria from an established tank then of course the process is going to be quicker. Too much of water being changed too frequently reduces the ammount of "food" for the bacteria. So logically if you do a large enough water change frequently enough then you could get rid of food to starve the bacteria enough to cause some to die. That's why I let the water parameters govern when/if I do a water change. If the parameters are high it's time to put clean water in. Thing of ammonia/nitrite as pollution to the fish. The more pollution there is, the harder it is to breath. But we don't want to get rid off all the pollution cuz stuff feeds on it. Just most of the pollution. That's why we don't do 100% water changes.