Whirling mollie

[Alice B]

It's my baby mollie from the 29. She seemed to have difficulty swimming in the 29, and I suspect hasn't been getting enough to eat, competing with mom, dad and 5 bronze corries. I cleared a 10 yesterday so I put her in the 10. and fed her a couple of times today, she was quite hungry, did a 50% water change on that tank last night. I don't have a great ammonia test, nitrite 0, nitrate < 15, (strips - sorry), pH 7.0 (low for a mollie - it had been 6.5 when panda garras had the tank and the water change didn't do a full bump up). KH 120, GH close to180. She is excreting now, black poop. My suspicion, a little ammonia from 2 meals today, some uneaten flake. I've done a 4 gallon water change vaccing above the thin sand layer in the tank, added chlorine remover to bucket before adding to tank, and put in about 6 oz of Fritz Zyme 7 - fresh. I searched whirling mollie and landed in a 2011 post on this site. There is a big cultured sponge filter in the tank.

 

[Colin_T]

Need a video of the fish. You can upload it to YouTube, then copy & paste the link here.

I won't be able to view it until I get my monitor replaced but others might.

As a general rule, fish that spin or spiral through the water, have a problem with the brain. It can be a genetic defect or an infection caused by bacteria, protozoa or viruses. Salt can sometimes help prevent it spreading, but normally if the fish starts spinning, it's too late.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[Alice B]

She's not whirling anymore. And was never twirling along the length of her body, she was just swimming in circles, which I found rather odd. Like a tight 2 or 3 inch circle.. She is swimming at the top, some and down around in the tank some, but I haven't offered food yet today. She is alone, that may bother her but if she was sick that's how it was going to be.

I never got any salt in, I went to bed shortly after her water change and Fritz Zyme last night, and she looks better now. I think she was starving in the 29, and maybe gorged, plus I probably had a mild ammonia spike in that tank because I fed so much twice yesterday. I vacc'ed up the surplus during her water change

 

[Alice B]

She not whirling anymore and is probably normal, just bored and hungry. And maybe lonesome

 

[Alice B]

does this fish swim like it's sick?

 

[Colin_T]

Is the fish eating from the surface in the video?
If not, there is an issue, possibly something in the water or a gill problem.

There is a lot of water movement in that tank and the fish was being pushed around a bit. Maybe reduce the water movement so the fish doesn't have to constantly swim into currents.

 

[Alice B]

The fish still acts like it's eating all the time. it's been days. I've not gone in and seen that mollie not at the top. Hangs out in the corners, not the movement from the sponge filter, and just nibbles the surface. Eats when I add food. I don't think it is the water. If it's a gill problem and it's gill flukes I have prazi. Waste is dark, not stringy.

 

[Alice B]

The whirling baby got thinner, male mollie got knife thin, I euthanized. The female is still eating, but hangs out under the filter when not eating. I did a water change today, I don't know how long she will have this 10 to herself. The male and female act as if light bothers them. The baby acted as if she had a brain disorder.

 

[Byron]

I donot think the GH or pH are (were) suited to this fish and that is the prime cause of their slow demise. From SF:

In the wild form this fish is very hardy but years of inbreeding and over-production have resulted in many of the mollies available in the hobby today being very weak genetically and prone to disease. This is particularly true of the common black morph.​

Often recommended to beginners as a suitable community fish it should be noted that all the morphs do better in slightly brackish conditions and are much more prone to disease when maintained in freshwater that is not hard and alkaline [my emphasis]. In fact this species is a popular choice to cycle new marine aquariums and can live a happy life in full marine conditions.​

The GH is given as 15 dH and up, the pH as above 7 to high 8's. I have come across many sources stating that when kept in softer or less basic (pH) water they are highly susceptible to diseases, and the "whirling" is certainly a common sign of their reaction to soft water. Shimmies, clamped fins, and lethargy are other symptoms but these obviously may be due to other issues too. The water GH/pH though is very important for this fish.

 

[Alice B]

I am maintaining the adult female, she needed a water change yesterday, despite a ph below 8 she's had no issues. I see no issues with the corydoras catfish - whose tank is pretty consistently between 7.5 and 8 because that is what comes out of my tap, If there is no disease she could go back in with the corydoras and I could have an empty quarantine tank today. What do you think @Byron ?

 

[Byron]

I am maintaining the adult female, she needed a water change yesterday, despite a ph below 8 she's had no issues. I see no issues with the corydoras catfish - whose tank is pretty consistently between 7.5 and 8 because that is what comes out of my tap, If there is no disease she could go back in with the corydoras and I could have an empty quarantine tank today. What do you think @Byron ?

There obviously is always the possibility of disease among the mollies, and on that I am not expert so I won't guess. The pH remaining above 7.5 is OK, but the GH is still low. These things make the life processes more difficult for the fish. This further weakens them, and other problems can more easily hit. Sometimes it is quick (especially in fry which are more susceptible), other times the fish can "appear" OK for weeks, even months, but the weakening effect and stress is still there.

I would not be quick to put the lone remaining molly in with other fish if they are now separated. Going forward, you do not want to be raising the GH/pH with cories (or any other soft water fish) just to satisfy a molly. If the GH/pH are stable and in the ranges previously given, the molly would be best returned.

 

[Alice B]

I think I may give my daughter the mollie, or take her back to the pet store I got her from. except for guppies I have no other live bearers, and except for African cichlids, I don't know of a species that requires hard water like mollies.

 

[Byron]

I think I may give my daughter the mollie, or take her back to the pet store I got her from. except for guppies I have no other live bearers, and except for African cichlids, I don't know of a species that requires hard water like mollies.

Good plan. The guppies should not have issues in water with a GH around 10, nor with the pH. There are certainly more options with fish that prefer moderately hard/soft water than very hard.

I had mollies back in the 1980's, and having very soft and quite acidic water, I had a dolomite substrate in the tank and the volume of water changes was less than I would do with most tanks, to avoid shocks. They did quite well, so far as I knew, but they were certainly solitary fish because of the parameter needs.