What to do next?

[BettaMomma]

Harvey's been in his new 10G tank for 6 days now. I just finished his parasite treatment yesterday (Maracide). During that, he was also on maracyn two, and before THAT he was on a round of tetracycline - these 2 meds are used because I suspected he had a fill infection and/or internal infection.

He was OD'd on melafix a while back and has had all sorts of problems since then. His face turned a really rusty color, and the edges of his gills are still pretty rusty colored. He has a couple of lumps under his chin that I noticed get smaller when I had him on tetracycline and then maracyn, but now that he's not on either of those anymore, the lumps are kind of coming back. I'm guessing that's from internal infection? Also, when he flares his right gill raker still doesn't come out all the way - has been that way for a few weeks now. That started about the same time that the rusty colored cheeks and lumps under the chin started.

I want to do a 100% water change on the 10G tank and get Archie in there, and get the cycling process going but I don't think I dare to put Archie in with Harvey yet because it seems like Harvey's not quite healthy yet.
Harvey's fins are growing back nicely and it looks like the finrot is gone and the tail eating has stopped.

What to do next?

 

[WILDER]

What colour are the lumps, and how big, also are they hard when you feel them, or soft like filled with puss.

 

[BettaMomma]

Well they're under his skin - they're just like little swollen lymph nodes - that's the best thing I can relate them to in a human. They're not really bumps on the outside of his skin, but rather underneath it.

I haven't felt them - he frantically swims the other direction when I look at him the wrong way - he'd probably have a stroke if I tried to touch him.
I don't think it's a tumor, though, because they came before I medicated him, and while I was medicating him they went down and now that i'm not medicating him for internal infection anymore they are coming back.
Also, one of his gill rakers doesn't come all the way out - and the lump is right under his chin - very near his gills so I'm assuming the 2 are related.

Here's the best pic of it I can find (he HATES having his picture taken - uugh!):

 

[WILDER]

Do you think they could be parasite bumps, does the fish heavy breath, or try to flick and rub.

 

[WILDER]

Does it sound like this.
). A swelling forms in the muscle under the skin during the course of several weeks and may protrude way out from the surface of the body. The scales can be lifted also A sporozoan cyst or lesion forms in the musculature No suitable treatment known. Verify by dissecting the fish.

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[BettaMomma]

Oh my GOD

dissect the fish???


Yeah, he was rubbing and flicking on stuff but I treated him for parasites and he seems to have stopped that.

The lumps have also gone down during med treatment but they're back.
Whattya think?

Also, he's eating completely normally, flaring normally (aside from the fact that his right gill raker doesn't come out), he's as sassy as he has always been and he's not breathing heavy. His fins have begun to grow back after a nasty bout of finrot.

They can get swelled up areas on their body with an internal infection too, though, right?

 

[red_fish_blue_fish]

That explains why Neptune has been rubbing and twitching...I think you have a parasite infection if that have gone down during treatment. I would try another round of treatment, and if they don't go down after that start to worry. Have u uped the tank temp, and done full water changes...added a little salt?

 

[BettaMomma]

I just got through a round of Maracide for parasites, and his temp is about 78. I am slowly getting it up to about 80 - I might raise it a bit more.

Before now he was on maracyn 2 for finrot and before THAT he was on tetracycline for the combination of gill problems, internal infection AND finrot.

I think tonight I'll give that tank a 100% water change, vacuum the crap out of the gravel and start him again on parasite meds - I'll have to see how he looks when I get home.

UUUUUUUGH - double UUGH.

 

[WILDER]

I wouldn't use anymore meds on the fish, they can only tolerate so much, i would try the high temp and salt and let him have a rest from the meds, good luck.

 

[BettaMomma]

Okay - I think I might just give him a 100% water change and clean the whole tank out. Then get him back in there with some nice sparkly clean salty water.

I'm also going to read up on the indian almond leaf I got from SRC and probably get that going.

Thanks

 

[BettaMomma]

100% water change went very smoothly.
While it was empty, I decided I should get the cycling going.
I took a scoop of gravel from my girly tank and dumped it into the new tank and set up the filter.

Harvey seems to be doing great in it now.
Should I keep Archie out of the tank still?
Harvey's still having problems with one gill raker. His tail is growing back really well, but something is obviously still wrong with his gill.

Archie's tail is in HORRIBLE shape - and getting worse by the day. IT got up to 80 degrees here today so Archie's tank went up to 84. Should I go ahead and get him into the tank with Harvey? Or not?

 

[Kiarra]

As much as I would hate to expose Archie to whatever Harvey might have, yes, I think it might be a good time to move Archie into that tank. Temperature fluctuations like that cannot possibly be any good for the boy.

 

[cerulean]

here are some posts from Australia with some ideas about what to do during heat. i have several friends in Thailand who say its hot, hotter, and $%# hot, meaning over 90 to 100+ isn't unusual, water temp would get quite warm too. our house bettas live in cooler temps than that and it is probably more the quick change in temp that can hurt more than having it be gradual and a natural thing. not everyone has central air and regulated temp. all of our fish tanks for years, from one gallon to 30 gallons, including bettas, fluctuate all year because we don't have regulated heat/cold. i make sure there are fans on near them when its warm, keep the extra lights off, sometimes remove the lids (put something on that can still let in air for bettas because man can they jump lol) and they've been fine even when the water temp gets well into the mid to even upper 80's. during the winter the tank heaters gets turned up, but when the wood stove gets turned on, off goes the heater. the wood stove can easily make it as hot as august. it'd be nice if the house could be a steady perfect temp but i don't get that so my fish can't. we've both adapted fine and heat hasn't caused any problems. most things do adapt.

http/www.australianbettaforums.com/forum...3363&highlight=
http/www.australianbettaforums.com/forum...opic.php?t=3849

 

[BettaMomma]

Thanks cerulean - I'm kind of to the point now where I've decided to get Archie into the temp controlled tank just for the sake of his health. It's been an uphill battle for months now and it's just going downhill fast. I've tried several things to keep his temp steady and I'm ready to rip my hair out! heh heh
Thanks for the links - i will be checking them out anyway.

Kiarra - I almost put him in last night. I was so very tempted. I'm on the same pattern of thinking that you are - I think he NEEDS to get in there. That tail looks worse and worse every single day. Harvey's lumps seem to be smaller today and he's swimming around there like he's the king of the tank. He has no visible signs anymore of illness, really, except that one gill raker that still won't come out and the very slight lumps - BUT... I at one point had thought that maybe the lumps had always been there and they were just exposed when his gill raker problem cropped up, and that it just wasn't hanging down over that part of his chin on a regular basis anymore. Who knows.... And I've heard that sometimes when they get an illness, there can be permanent damage done to them, too so he may be permanently flaring one-sided. lol So I guess we'll see. His tail is growing back really nicely, so hopefully Archie's will too.

Wish us luck.

 

[BettaMomma]

Well, they're in together.
They seem to be doing fine.
They've seen each other but don't really seem to be too concerned about it.

I guess we'll see how it goes.