What if I can't keep a group....

GaryE

Moderator
Staff member
Global Moderator ⚒️
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
6,060
Reaction score
9,685
Location
Eastern Canada
Okay, you like a fish. You do some proper research, and you learn it's a social, gregarious creature. What happens if you can only afford one? Or if you only have space for one?

No answer in the hobby is clearer.

You don't get it until your circumstances change.

When you have more cash, or when you have a larger tank with plenty of room, you should still be able to find that species of fish. At that point, two things will happen.

One: the fish will live a better life in a group.
Two: You will have a better fishkeeping experience with a fish that behaves more naturally, is less stressed and is probably longer lived.

It doesn't mean people who have made bad fish choices don't take the best care they can of their pets. A lone social fish may receive excellent care, and live a long life. It's more something to think of before you make an ill advised purchase.
 
Starting out when I was a kid in 1965 I came home with a lot of fish that I had no business acquiring. Always just one because you don’t buy groups of fish on a 25 cent weekly allowance. I cringe now thinking about those days but Gary is right . If you can’t do them proud then leave them at the pet shop .
 
Wholeheartedly agree!

Before I inherited dad's tank and got into the hobby myself, I'd still enjoy sitting and watching his tank when I visited, but now that I know more, I know the stocking was pretty bad. Old school mix of soft and hard water fish, mostly a typical community tank with a trio of black/silver/blue mollies that produced a few fry now and then, gourami, small schools of all sorts of tetra, like 5-6 cardinals, black neons, glowlights, zebra danios. At least no cichlids or sharks.

By the time I took over tank cleaning and read up on the fish he had, I felt sorry for the two huge female bronze cories, so bought four youngsters to bump their school up - had them in a 12g QT for a month, then just before I was going to move them to the main tank, those four spawned! I freaked out, lol, but that got me into breeding cories once NC had calmed me down and patiently talked me through what to do.

But the ones that this post made me think of were the two botiid loaches my Uncle brought over as a gift for my dad for his birthday once. Was years ago, but I remember because they were so cool looking and different from the fish I'd seen before - looked like yoyos or pakistani, but I didn't know that at the time, just thought they were cool looking, and entertaining when I watched them. Dad happily accepted them and plopped them in the tank after floating the bag for a while. They were fun to spot and watch when I visited over the years, clownish, would do things like squeeze into the filter intake and need to be rescued, and chase each other around the tank, or suddenly appear from the jungle of crypts.

My uncle (who was a close friend when my parents ran an aviaries and aquatics business, and has always had tanks himself, so should have known better) also didn't consider that dad had a good amount of yellow apple snails, but the loaches certainly did, and wiped them out. Once they were years old and looked like one thick chunky female and a slimmer male they didn't touch pest snails though. Snails were too small for them to bother going after, they'd just eat the fish food and ignore pest snails too small for them to bother with.

When I took over maintaining and was trying to balance the schools as much as possible I read up on them on Seriously Fish, and watched videos about different botiid loaches interacting in big groups, and the difference was incredible. I watched them with new eyes, and saw that they really didn't get along. The male would aggressively chase the female away, seemed to consider the whole tank his territory, and she often greyed out, a sign of stress in loaches.

I wanted to get some more of the same species so they'd have at least a group of five to form a hierarchy/spread out the dominance displays, but the patterns and colours change from juvenile to adult. It's hard to get comparison photos online, or photos of the two we had! So decided it might make things worse, especially since tank was already overstocked, then eventually lost them when dad turned the filter off "to rest the motor" without telling me, and had a huge tank crash. lost a lot of fish then, but those two passing hurt me the most.

They lived a pretty long life, he'd had them for years. But it wasn't a great life (or death) for them.

I have a soft spot for botiids now, and would love a huge tank with a big group of the mid-sized or small ones. Yoyos/zebras or something, but I'd want to set it up right, with the habitat they'd have in the wild, and in a really good group number, 10 plus. I've been tempted to adopt the odd yoyo or other lonely loach when people are trying to shut down their neglected tanks and rehome their fish, but have resisted because I don't have the right set up. Hopefully someone else who does will adopt those. One day I'll have that loach tank, but the time isn't right.

It's sad and disheartening when I still see them recommended as snail clean up. They've been sold as singles or pairs to do that job for years, and that bad 'wisdom' has stuck around to this day, and it must be horrible for such a smart and social fish.
 
This is not going to be a popular response… I have and still do challenge the need for a minimum group size, on some fish… fish like my tin foil barbs, we’re so neurotic when they were small, I don’t think they would have grown up, with any less than I have, but some others never hang with the rest of their species, even though they are listed as a shoaling fish… and some only need similar fish to hang with, they seem just as happy to hang with a similar fish of different species… then some fish need the company of others as juveniles, but as they mature, may even drive off the rest of their clan, often during mating, but sometimes, just as they mature… I guess I don’t have a problem saying a minimum fish to buy, but with strings attached
 
This is not going to be a popular response… I have and still do challenge the need for a minimum group size, on some fish… fish like my tin foil barbs, we’re so neurotic when they were small, I don’t think they would have grown up, with any less than I have, but some others never hang with the rest of their species, even though they are listed as a shoaling fish… and some only need similar fish to hang with, they seem just as happy to hang with a similar fish of different species… then some fish need the company of others as juveniles, but as they mature, may even drive off the rest of their clan, often during mating, but sometimes, just as they mature… I guess I don’t have a problem saying a minimum fish to buy, but with strings attached

I've never kept barbs, so this is just a really uninformed opinion, but I think this is largely due to the fact we're keeping these species in unnatural conditions. What I do know about barbs is that they have pretty complex dominance structures and drives for things like mating/territory, can be nippy and bully other fish, of the same species or others. All fine and entertaining, but when they're contained in a glass box, even massive tanks, it's not the same as in the wild, where the other could escape, or the fish are more occupied finding food rather than being overfed twice daily, and would be breeding and so otherwise occupied and living in much larger numbers... so in an aquarium they have more free time to peck at and harass each other.

Like when people put a male and female betta together to breed, but have to remove the female so the male doesn't kill her. In the wild, she'd just leave at the right time, but can't escape in a tank situation. Or they try keeping a tank full of female bettas together "because females from the same batch can get along", forgetting that yes, they do - when they're juvenile and growing up. Once they're old enough, they venture out on their own, and don't live with other females anymore.

Many people in the hobby, beginners and experienced keepers alike - forget that fish behaviour changes when they mature, just as in other species. They'll put a load of African Rift Lake and South American cichlids together, swear that the tank is stable and balanced, and the fish aren't bothering each other "and they've been fine for months", then have disaster after disaster down the line once the fish mature, pair up and start taking territory and breeding, and the other bullied fish can't escape the glass box we put them all together in.

I'm glad that the hobby in general is moving towards tanks that are as natural as possible, with live plants, overhead cover, the interest in nano fish species, aquascaping, and creating more natural biotopes and habitats. It feels like the most ethical way to go to me, but of course, non of us are perfect, we've all made stocking errors and mistakes that have killed a fish - I guarantee there isn't a single hobbyist who hasn't killed a fish (or a lot of them) because of a mistake. It's a complex hobby that is fun to nerd out on, but not everyone wants to nerd out, and that's fine too!
 
I used to think you could just chuck anything in a tank and had no idea how complex fishkeeping was until relatively recently. I started out with 3 ADF's about 10 years ago and a few years back when I was down to 1 ADF I added 3 cories. I still have those cories now but thanks to this forum they're in a much bigger tank with lots of cory friends! I had no business getting them when I did but am glad they finally have the conditions they deserve.

There's so much contradictory advice out there, and whilst the Internet has made some things 10x easier it's also allowed 10x more misinformation. I still class myself as a novice and can find it hard to separate the junk info from the worthwhile, so can see why some people end up with totally unsuitable fish.
 
I have a soft spot for botiids now, and would love a huge tank with a big group of the mid-sized or small ones. Yoyos/zebras or something, but I'd want to set it up right, with the habitat they'd have in the wild, and in a really good group number, 10 plus.
Unfortunately they have got very expensive but if you get the chance I can highly recommend dwarf chain loach (ambastaia sidthimunki). Definitely better with 10 plus and will be out and about all day.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top