Well There's Ya Problem, Water Quality

[rabbut]

Well, finally got those test kits today, and I have some results...

KH off the scale (stops at 16dKH)
Calsium 380ppm
Magnesium 1245ppm
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
pH 8.4

So, the question is, do I hold off untill tomorrow, and waterchange the tank, or do I use some addatives to boost mag and calk, letting nature bring it down.

Tests before uni said;

KH 13.1
Calsium < 340
Mag < 1300

I was expecting all to be a little high, due to adding addatives daily, so went to the lowest healthy expected reading for each before shaking. Woops, not accurate result for calk or mag. So I added enough calk to raise by 75ppm and enough mag to raise by 125ppm. Now, KH has rocketed from high to ultra-high, where as mag and calk haven't moved by much...

Help, please?

Rabbut

 

[BigC]

PM sent
Regards
BC

 

[rabbut]

PM recieved, very useful, thanks

 

[rabbut]

Further to the issue with the tank's water stats, the water I use for waterchanges is c?@# aswell...

AquaOne Salt, mixed to an SG of 1.025, gives the following readings;

KH 12.3dKH
Ca 370ppm
Mg 1170ppm

Not exactly great...

A question for the UK folk, what's cheaper, buying RO at £2.50 for 25l and adding say Reef Crystals myself, or using balling salts to raise the Mg and Ca levels, after buying salt RO at £5 for 25l. This is assuming the likely event that I cannot get my boss to switch salt brands at work...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[BigC]

May be worth changing your brand of Salt Rt.
Something with more heightend values than what your using.
I got favourable results using D&D H2Ocean Pro+ or Red Sea Coral Pro
Heres mine for the D&D H2Ocean Pro (Typical)
Temp 25.7
SG 1.026
pH 8.3
Mg 1270
Alk 11.8 dKH or 4.23 meq/ltr
Calc 445
I test my waterchange values (12 ltrs weekly) try to get my tank to there or there abouts through the week using the balling salts I mentioned close to these values.
Usually only the Alk falls slightly, so no big deal dripping 3-4gms of Sodium Bicarb into the sump weir, ( this can be baked prior so as not to affect the pH. (changes the Bicarbonate to Carbonate) but I keep a close eye on things. Unfortunatly as I said before it makes you a slave to the Test Kits, but I dont mind that.
Regards
BigC

 

[rabbut]

Thanks for the recomendation. I may see if I can find space under the sink for an RO unit, and space behind the garrage for two water butts, such that I can make my own, but realistically, it's not likely that I'm going to be able to batch make my salt mixes, so it will be weekly mixing in a bucket Still.... Could be worse, I could be using a whole 300gram tub of magnesium fortnightly to buffer Mg with the current salt. It takes 20 spoons of Mag flake to raise a 25l tub This said, balling salts are more economical, and that link you sent surgests I'll need arround 1 spoon total of the Mg addatives to buffer that ammount of water to my target level...

Thanks again
Rabbut

 

[BigC]

No problem Rt,
Just remember as with any dosing you can only do a certain amount of adjustment in one day (24hrs) I'm sure your well aware of that fact.
I'm only using tiny tiny amounts of the chemicals (and mainly just Sodium Bicarb) so these chemicals (1kg tubs) are gonna last quite some time.
And incidentally I drip the Bicarb in at night.
ATB
BigC

 

[SkiFletch]

In your specific case Rabbut, I'd dose mag then calc to bring those up and let natural calcification fix things. High alkalinity and low calcium/magnesium isn't really that big a deal. Annoying maybe, but not a chemical disaster waiting to happen. High alk, high calc, and low mag is the situation you need to avoid, so make sure you dose mag first

 

[rabbut]

Thanks you two

Magnesium Chloride is available as some dietary suppliments for human consumption, and Magnesium Sulphate is Epsom salts I believe, so would these be safe to use instead of said bags from online source? It's just that I'm now fresh out of mag suppliment, and my bubble coral is realy starting to look like it's struggling. I've done a large (40%) waterchange with fresh salt RO water, with the Mg and Ca suppliments added to up them (this is where a lot of the mg went) and I hope I diden't overcook things. Adding suppliments up's salinity doesn't it, as the salt RO was on 1.025 when it left work yesterday, and was on 1.029 after adding the suppliments to it. I had to dilute it down by a long way before I could use it...

Anyhow, that's covered todays "safe" ammount to add for the day, so I can't add more safely I don't think...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[SkiFletch]

Yup, anything good enough for human suppliments should be fine for the reef tank, same with epsom salts. Yes, adding chloride ions will raise your salinity That's an unusually large amount of raise if you ask me, but not out of the question. I'd double check with one more test

 

[rabbut]

Well, I added 1 litre of fresh RO to every 8 litres of salted on the way in, and in two of the three buckets it was still too high, and needed an extra couple of hundered ml of fresh Today the tank is clouded over, but the corals are out for the first time in ages. Stats are just a tad low now, rather than very, in the tank also

Mg 1260
Alk 13
Ca 375
SG 1.027

Using Salifert. The KH seems to have come down a long way for a 40%, so I may re-test later, but thats considerably better than yesterday. The other stats look OKish to me and where I'd expect. I should also get away with internet ordering the suppliments I need now, rather than a trip to the Chemists...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[rabbut]

Well, the balling salts arrived this morning, so I made a start on rectifying things after work today... I appear to have overcooked it a little...

Mg > 1500ppm, should have raised 50ppm from 1215ppm if my maths was correct...
Ca > 500ppm, untouched, was 360ppm at last test
KH > 16dKH, untouched, was 12.1dKH at last test

Obviously my maths was probibly incorrect on the Mg suppliment, but what the heck has brought up the Ca and KH readings? Void test? The samples were drawn 1/2 an hour after dosing the Mg... Some chemical reaction going on between the Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Sulphate and non-chloride balling salts mebe? I'm a tad stumped here...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[SkiFletch]

Ah chemistry, so difficult

Did you use a Reef Chemistry Calculator by chance? I make stupid little math errors all the time, so I let someone else do it for me whenever possible

Give it a test again a couple hours after your dosing and see what turns up. Some funky things can happen when you change the equillibrium reactions by driving up magnesium. Wouldn't have thought it'd go that drastic though...

 

[rabbut]

Thank's Ski. I used UR's reef calculator to work out the dose in grams, and then divided it by 5 to get the number of level tea spoons to add to my bottles, for a 100ppm increase form 1000ml of each suppliment. I then added about 500ml to (or this was the hopeful aim) get 50ppm more Mg in the tank... With a bit of luck, it's just some chemical reaction going on in the background, messing up my tests, and all is well. The corals don't look too bad this morning, though a large crab has materialised from nowhere after about 5 months with the tank going... Need to update the journal again also, got some good growth from the organ pipe, despite it looking to struggle at times and being eaten by those anthias stars at one point...

Anyhow

All the best
Rabbut

 

[SkiFletch]

That's why I like the calculator I linked to, it gives amounts in volume (tsp or ounces) not weight. Sure it's not PERFECT that way, but there's much less room for mistake