Way To Cut Out Water Changes?

[loz_the_guru]

Quick question (hopefully):

Is there a way to cut out water changes? The positioning of my tank means that any mess gets spilled all over everything. If i bought a significantly oversized filter could I eliminate these?

 

[Honeythorn]

No you couldn't. Waters in the wild are refreshed by rainfall and flooding, and so you need to refresh your tank water . Also, you need to remove excess nitrate, which is the end product of the biological cycle after everything's been through your filter ( no matter how big it is ) . Even the heaviest planting won't get rid of quite enough. You'll just have to be very careful not to spill. Don't fill the bucket as much. It'll take a bit longer to do water changes but it will reduce your chances of dripping water everywhere.

 

[Truck]

no you cant cut then out. there compulsary unless you have a filter that works on an evaporation and rain system

 

[Gilli]

nope water changes are essential for good water quality! I keep a couple of old towels and lay those on the floor under the buckets im using to catch any spills.

 

[Tolak]

Look into getting a Python, no more buckets for water changes.

 

[waterdrop]

Not only does the weekly water change remove nitrate(NO3), it also removes hundreds of other trace metals and organics that we can't afford or have time to test for. The nitrate(NO3) is just the "canary bird in the mine" that serves as the warning of things unseen.

A tank that survives without water changes will eventually exhibit "old tank syndrome" where the older fish have adjusted to bad water parameters and survive, but new fish that are introduced will die, seemingly with no explanation. Its not an easy problem to undo.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[loz_the_guru]

Right, just so im getting this right, the answers no?

Thanks alot guys, thought the filter broke down nitrate/N)3 too, seems not!

What sort of NO3 levels are reasonable when testing?

 

[andywg]

Utilise a well constructed algae turf scrubber and you can cut water changes down to around once every 6 months to a year or so.

Basically, if you find any successful filtration system to deal with nitrates you should be ok. Many people on here will cry that it isn't possible but there are some studies on larger closed circuit systems on fish farms which have no issues after a year, meaning far fewer water changes are easily possible. You may have to keep an eye on KH and pH till you see how it all changes over time.

Studies indicate that adult fish don't have problems lower than 400ppm nitrates. 100ppm is a fairly good guide to run to if you test.

 

[drobbyb]

Utilise a well constructed algae turf scrubber and you can cut water changes down to around once every 6 months to a year or so.

Basically, if you find any successful filtration system to deal with nitrates you should be ok. Many people on here will cry that it isn't possible but there are some studies on larger closed circuit systems on fish farms which have no issues after a year, meaning far fewer water changes are easily possible. You may have to keep an eye on KH and pH till you see how it all changes over time.

While that may be true, it is also extremely expensive. That's why you don't see those type of systems for sale everywhere.

 

[andywg]

While that may be true, it is also extremely expensive. That's why you don't see those type of systems for sale everywhere.

How did you decide it is extremely expensive to set up an algae turf scrubber? Have you actually researched what is involved?

If you look towards the marine section you will see just how easy it is to set up an algae turf scrubber. It's the cost of an overflow/drilling a tank, a return pump, a sump tank, some pipes, a screen to grow the algae on and some light.

Hardly extremely expensive. Would not even cost double what a good filter does on a larger system.

 

[Tolak]

Does this work on fresh water Andy?

 

[andywg]

It does indeed. It takes a while to get going with the algae but I know of people utilising it on 1,000 gallon African cichlid set ups with good success (the algae can occasionally be used as food too once dried).

 

[drobbyb]

While that may be true, it is also extremely expensive. That's why you don't see those type of systems for sale everywhere.

How did you decide it is extremely expensive to set up an algae turf scrubber? Have you actually researched what is involved?

If you look towards the marine section you will see just how easy it is to set up an algae turf scrubber. It's the cost of an overflow/drilling a tank, a return pump, a sump tank, some pipes, a screen to grow the algae on and some light.

Hardly extremely expensive. Would not even cost double what a good filter does on a larger system.

That would depend on your definition of expensive Andy. Yes I have seen such a system. It costs a few hundred dollars to set up and for me this is expensive.

 

[Tolak]

***Tolak says "Hmmmm..." as he drills another tank.***

 

[waterdrop]

I can confirm that Andy is correct that algae turf setups are not necessarily expensive much at all. I read through the information on them in the marine section a while back and found it quite interesting. Some may find that they have issues with the DIY aspects or with space or with the more minor issue of water noises, but noise might not be worse than an HOB filter.

I must confess that even though I read that there should be benefits for freshwater setups from algae turf devices, I can not recall what the main benefits (for freshwater) might be. Most of the discussion in the marine section had to do with A.T. setups replacing Protein Skimmers and perhaps some other marine gear. I could imagine these units helping to reduce ammonia, nitrates and adding oxygen. Are those the main points for freshwater and is it better at some than others Andy?

Even if the AT scrubber does a great job with certain water parameters, how would we know that it didn't just alter the picture for trace metals and other things we don't normally measure, still leaving us with trouble building up from no water changes? Surely this methodology is still too new and experimental for us to know whether some slightly altered form of "old tank syndrome" might still occur.

One thought that might prove interesting though would be whether these units in combination with a planted tank might indeed create a situation needing fewer water changes and less disturbance to the substrate, which can be a problem for plants and can be an algae trigger.

Another aspect of the A.T. scrubber that would have to be weighed by the hobbyist is whether the maintenance of the algae screens, more extensive tubing and light bulbs, including any heat issues with the bulbs would prove less vexing than water change hoses, dechlor and temperature matching. Clearly for some individuals in the threads in the marine section, the sheer fun of trying out a new cutting edge technology was an energizing factor.

Anyway, seems a fun thing to learn about. I for one would like to understand from anyone who knows, more about its water chemistry benefits.

~~waterdrop~~