Watts Per Gallon

[Miss Wiggle]

right, i've been keeping tropicals for about 5 yrs now and me and Ian have been fantasising over setting up a reef tank. We just realised one of our cupboards would be perfect to house one, with the tank on top and the sump boxed away underneath. So were just starting to do a bit of research, starting with the v helpful pinned topic about starting up. Were just looking into getting some ballpark figures pricing wise so we can work out if we could ever afford it.

OK so we know key lighting is a factor, we'd like a reef and have seen 300wpg is ideal. First question is, is that absolutely set in stone, can you get away with 200/250 if you just go for soft coral's or anything like that? If anyone knows any bargain places to get stuff it would be much appreciated.

So thanks, and expect many more basic questions like this from me and Ian in the next few weeks

 

[demonmagus]

I don't think you need 300 wpg

but maybe you do, I don't have a saltwater tank but thats a lot of lighting lol

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

The guide that i used was

4-5w per gallon for softies
6-7 for LPS
8-10 for SPS
10+ Anemone

But that is just a very basic guide, there are so many aspects that are included. Your best bet would be to tell us your intended tank size so people can reccomend you a decent unit

 

[andywg]

300 WPG? That's huge!

That would be 3 1000W MH on a 10 gallon...

You don't need anywhere near that size.

The light you need depends on what you want to keep, and the tank dimensions. Softer corals and Zoanthids don't need much more than T8 flourescants (T5 and Power Compact will be fine). as you move into LPS and SPS corals you need higher intensity and you will keep looking at Metal Halide tanks.

I myself prefer MH for any fair size tank as it provide a great look to the tank and allos more flexible stocking. Up to 18" deep a 150W is fine, with 250W being very good power. Over 18" 250W becomes more necessary and after you are deeper than 2 feet (or wanting big light for ambitious growth) you will be looking at 400W and above.

On a normal 4 foot long, 18 inch deep tank (as a quick example), I would say that you could go with Poewr Compacts or HO T5 units for most things, and a pair of 150W metal halides if you want something a bit more fancy.

Not forgetting that if you just want a Fish Only setup (which sadly too few people do these days... ) then you don't need anything special in the form of lighting, just enough to see the fish.

 

[Lynden]

Who told you 300 watts per gallon? Thats insane! Thats like blasting the power of a star into a lake

I don't think metal halides are really neccesary for many animals - I've seen anemones grow under 2 PC bulbs. However, if you have the money needed to pay for tremendously expensive metal halides, then by all means go for it, because they are beautiful and very effective.

Apparently the Pet Pirates website has good priced Metal Halides. Thats where I would go if I wanted them. But if you dont want to buy things over the internet, then you are looking at $500-700 per 150 watt ballast. The bulbs can be as high as $100. And no matter how cheap you get them for, there is still the electricity bill.

But like I said before, if money is not an obstacle, go for Metal Halides. If it is, don't get a reef tank
Just kidding. I barely srape by with my stuff

-Lynden

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK thats what Ian said he'd read last night, must have got the wrong end of the stick! glad we asked that! maybe 300w was ideal for the 30g tank or something?

He does want coral's, he's right into his planted tanks so if we do go marine I'll do the fish and he'll do the corals

the tank would probably be about 30g and 3 foot long, not worked out the exact dimensions but that's a fair enough start. then we'd have probably around a 20g sump, we'd want inverts etc in there too to help with the filtration so that would need lighting too wouldn't it?

I'd love to say money's no object, but sadly it always is. But if a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing right so we wouldn't cut corners all over the place to save money. We'd want a fairly respectable set up but not uber fancy. So were just attempting to price it up on that basis to see if we could ever afford it and how much we need to save.

Not too fussed about my leccy bill though, with 6 tropical tanks were used to it being sky high!

 

[andywg]

CM is way overdoing the price of Metal Halides in the above post. I picked up two 150W MH for £70 off ebay. They are shop units rather than special aquarium ones. At most it would be another £40 from Pet Pirates for more appropriate bulbs and away you go.

Alternatively on a 3 foot tank you could have an MH at one end and then have less bright lighting at the other end and can then seperate out the light demanding corals from those less fussy. That would give a cost of about £50-£60 for the MH lights, all in. Far from the hundreds CM is trying to imply.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

CM is way overdoing the price of Metal Halides in the above post. I picked up two 150W MH for £70 off ebay. They are shop units rather than special aquarium ones. At most it would be another £40 from Pet Pirates for more appropriate bulbs and away you go.

Alternatively on a 3 foot tank you could have an MH at one end and then have less bright lighting at the other end and can then seperate out the light demanding corals from those less fussy. That would give a cost of about £50-£60 for the MH lights, all in. Far from the hundreds CM is trying to imply.

excellent, that sounds quite feasible

are there any particualr brands/models etc that we should look out for (either for good/bad reasons!)

 

[andywg]

I don't know of brands, but if you get any T5 tubes, watch out for the end caps. Reef Central has had a few threads were the endcaps have caught alight, as too did mine about 5 months ago.

With the metal halides, so long as it is an appropriate MH ballast you should be fine, there is a good post on DIY halides from Pet Pirate here:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=147416

 

[Miss Wiggle]

cool, thanks for the tip and link

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK next question (told you there would be more)

Live rock, how much would you recommend for that size tank?

Ian saw an advert 20k for £180 (i think) is this too much, too little, grossly over pirced etc?

 

[SkiFletch]

On your side of the pond, thats a very good price and also a near perfect amount for a 30g tank w/sump. At a mere 9 quid per kilo, its very good. I read on these forums all the time of people paying 11-12+ quid per kilo. Much different here in the states... We pay less because we tend to deal in larger volumes, but the quality suffers a lot

 

[andywg]

You are right in the quality, though I understand this is due to the shipping as most US bound LR seems to sit on docksides for some time between ocean and lfs. UK lfs is fairly direct and most lfs have the LR in watere less than 48 hours after it is removed from the ocean.

Also, the £12 per kilo is usually for fully cured LR, which seems a little rarer (from my reading of marine forums and sites) in the states.

That price sounds like a box of uncured liverock. If you purchase that you will have to wait a couple of weeks before stocking the tank. You can get good deals on ebay, with prices around £5-7 per kilo for fully cured.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK cool, we'll budget in around £150 for live rock then.

Your all very helpful here thankyou!

Sure I'll have another million questions soon, we just discovered a marine specialist shop the other side of town, bet you can't guess what were doing this weekend

 

[SkiFletch]

Nice

When researching equipment costs, make sure you look at ebay, internet retailers, and I'm pretty sure there's a local brittish auction site setup especially for fish like an expanded swap forum. Perhaps someone else from your side of the pond can point you in that direction . Hardware at shops is usually HEAVILY marked up as far as price goes for lighting, skimmers, filters, etc. I usually only buy sand, salt, carbon, and livestock from my LFS since the shipping costs associated with heavy or individual orders for me tend to be as expensive or more expensive than my LFS charges since they of course deal in bulk. I'm lucky to have a bunch of marine specialty stores near me so livestock choices are many, and if need be, one store will special order at no extra cost within a week or two. This allows me to see the livestock which I much prefer prior to purchase. Mail order livestock is still of high quality and I hear very few reports of problems from reputable dealers, but its just that piece of mind you know?