Water hardness

[Tl52505]

Is water hardness something I should really worry about? I just found out about it a couple of days ago and found out mine was very low. I’ve never had problems with fish dying out of nowhere or randomly acting strange. Is this a parameter that really affects fish

 

[StevenF]

What is the value of your GH and KH. Animals and plants need calcium and magneisum to live. The fish get most of that through the food they eat. but if you have shrimp and snails that are eating mainly algae they may not get enough. Forplants the primary sources are the water, and the substrate. If you have a gravel substrate it is mainly gravel then the water is the major source. The GH test 9gerneral hardness) detects for the presence of calcium and magnesium but it cannot tell how much Ca or Mg you have.

A calcium deficiency often causes the tip of a leaf to curve down and can look like a hook. The the tip of the leaf dies.

A magnesium deficiency causes a leaf to wrinkle. or twist. Looking at the picture next to your name, you might have a magnesium deficiency. its very common. Most commercial fertilizers don't have calcium and most don't have enough magneisum.

Some fish prefer soft or hard water. Soyou can buy GH/boosters that have calcium and magnesium in a soluble form. For plants you can dosing the GH booster to 1 degree above what you have should be enough. For fish you have to look for recommendations for the fish you have and use that to guid your GH booster dose

You can put a sea shell or dolomite (mineral on your substate. But these only work when they dissolve in water. And they only dissolve when the ph is below 7. They will push the PH up to about 7 to 7.5 and stop dissolving. SO they allows won't push the pH any higher than 7.5.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I would be curious how soft your water is, and which fish you are keeping.

But to answer your question: With soft water, you'll be fine for many tropical species. Some fish, such as rainbowfish, most livebearers, and many cichlids, will do much better in harder water. Others require soft water to thrive. And still others are very adaptable and can do fine in a variety of hardness and pH. I advise looking up your species on seriouslyfish.com and seeing where their comfortable hardness range lies.

While it is possible to do as Steven says and alter your water to suit your fish, I find it is much better to choose fish that suit my water. Having to add chemicals to increase the hardness during every water change, or using R/O water to soften the water, gets extremely tiresome after a while and detracts a great deal from my enjoyment of my fish. Maybe that's just me.

 

[Tl52505]

I would be curious how soft your water is, and which fish you are keeping.

But to answer your question: With soft water, you'll be fine for many tropical species. Some fish, such as rainbowfish, most livebearers, and many cichlids, will do much better in harder water. Others require soft water to thrive. And still others are very adaptable and can do fine in a variety of hardness and pH. I advise looking up your species on seriouslyfish.com and seeing where their comfortable hardness range lies.

While it is possible to do as Steven says and alter your water to suit your fish, I find it is much better to choose fish that suit my water. Having to add chemicals to increase the hardness during every water change, or using R/O water to soften the water, gets extremely tiresome after a while and detracts a great deal from my enjoyment of my fish. Maybe that's just me.

The test I have for gh read 0 ppm and 240 ppm for kh, I agree that chemicals do get tiresome, especially when there is a problem with the tank every week. I don’t really have very many fish right now because I am just getting the tank going again. Right now I just have the cleanup crew going at it I have a pleco, some Cory catfish and some ghost shrimp.

 

[jaylach]

I would also like to know the fish that will/are involved. The best rule of thumb is to pick fish that fit the hardness, not try to change the hardness to fit the fish.

 

[Tl52505]

I would also like to know the fish that will/are involved. The best rule of thumb is to pick fish that fit the hardness, not try to change the hardness to fit the fish.

I mainly plan to make it a community tank with some schooling fish like neon tetras and danios, but I’m not too sure about the rest. The test kit I bought said a good place for the gh to be for most tropical fish is 60, which was pretty worrisome since mine read 0. I’m assuming water softener salt is to blame for this because I just use tap water with conditioner

 

[Tl52505]

What is the value of your GH and KH. Animals and plants need calcium and magneisum to live. The fish get most of that through the food they eat. but if you have shrimp and snails that are eating mainly algae they may not get enough. Forplants the primary sources are the water, and the substrate. If you have a gravel substrate it is mainly gravel then the water is the major source. The GH test 9gerneral hardness) detects for the presence of calcium and magnesium but it cannot tell how much Ca or Mg you have.

A calcium deficiency often causes the tip of a leaf to curve down and can look like a hook. The the tip of the leaf dies.

A magnesium deficiency causes a leaf to wrinkle. or twist. Looking at the picture next to your name, you might have a magnesium deficiency. its very common. Most commercial fertilizers don't have calcium and most don't have enough magneisum.

Some fish prefer soft or hard water. Soyou can buy GH/boosters that have calcium and magnesium in a soluble form. For plants you can dosing the GH booster to 1 degree above what you have should be enough. For fish you have to look for recommendations for the fish you have and use that to guid your GH booster dose

You can put a sea shell or dolomite (mineral on your substate. But these only work when they dissolve in water. And they only dissolve when the ph is below 7. They will push the PH up to about 7 to 7.5 and stop dissolving. SO they allows won't push the pH any higher than 7.5.

That pic is from before my tank went downhill. I posted another thread about how my parents were supposed to be taking care of it while I was away. I’m not gonna go into too much detail here but only 2 of my plants survived and a singular fish, which died a couple of days ago. I could already tell it wasn’t doing so well since I got home around a week and a half ago. I’m gonna attach a pic of the tank with how it looks now. The 2 Anubias are the ones that survived.

 

[Byron]

That pic is from before my tank went downhill. I posted another thread about how my parents were supposed to be taking care of it while I was away. I’m not gonna go into too much detail here but only 2 of my plants survived and a singular fish, which died a couple of days ago. I could already tell it wasn’t doing so well since I got home around a week and a half ago. I’m gonna attach a pic of the tank with how it looks now. The 2 Anubias are the ones that survived.

The two plants on the right side in the photo are Anubias. You have the rhizome partly buried, this can rot it. The thick rhizome must be above the substrate. For Anubias, it is best to use a piece of wood or rock and attach the plant to this. If wood sometimes a little gap is useful. Or you can use black cotton thread.

On the left of centre, there is a sword plant. A substrate tab will do wonders for this plant. Seachem's Flourish Tabs are very good.

There is nothing wrong with a GH of 0 (what test, this may be off?) with soft water fish as you have. My GH and KH were zero for 30 years. I never kept hard water species.

What is the pH of the tap water (remember to out-gas the CO2 before testing tap water for pH) and the tank water? The pH often/usually varies diurnally, and from the tap water for various reasons.

 

[StevenF]

The nutriends plants need fall into two basic groups macro and trace. That is a bit of an over simplification but valid. The macros are the NPK - Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potasium.

I’m assuming water softener salt is to blame for this because I just use tap water with conditioner

First many test kits measure in either degrees or ppm. 1 degree is 17.8ppm. so less than 1 degree might Be OK but 0ppm is not OK. So is your zero in ppm or degrees?

That said salt water softeners are not good for fish. All animals need a balance of potassium, sodium, calcium, and magnesium to correctly regulate the pressure within the cells of the body. if the balance is wrong the fish can die. To much potassium or sodium can kill or adversely affect the health of your fish. You water softeners is removing most of the calcium and magneisum in the water and adding a lot of sodium bicarbonate to your water. The salt is sodium chloride (NaCL. Most of the Mg, Ca, and Cl is flushed down the drain by the softener while it added sodium which quickly convert to sodium bicarbonate. So softened water typically has close to zero GH but the KH reading will be very high.

Look for a water tp near your water softener Typically installers leave a tap near the softener so the unsoftened water can be used if needed. Also many yard or garden water taps have unsoftened water. Test the water for each water tap you have any with zero Gh are likely softened water. Also you need to know your PH, Gh, and Kh. of your unsoftened water.

Plants don't need a lot of GH. 3ppm Ca and 1ppm Mg will work but typically more will be needed in tanks with more plants. Based on your photos your plants do show indications of a magneisum deficiency. But it is not really bad. So your water softeners probably didn't remove all of the calcium and magnesium.

 

[Tl52505]

First many test kits measure in either degrees or ppm. 1 degree is 17.8ppm. so less than 1 degree might Be OK but 0ppm is not OK. So is your zero in ppm or degrees?

That said salt water softeners are not good for fish. All animals need a balance of potassium, sodium, calcium, and magnesium to correctly regulate the pressure within the cells of the body. if the balance is wrong the fish can die. To much potassium or sodium can kill or adversely affect the health of your fish. You water softeners is removing most of the calcium and magneisum in the water and adding a lot of sodium bicarbonate to your water. The salt is sodium chloride (NaCL. Most of the Mg, Ca, and Cl is flushed down the drain by the softener while it added sodium which quickly convert to sodium bicarbonate. So softened water typically has close to zero GH but the KH reading will be very high.

Look for a water tp near your water softener Typically installers leave a tap near the softener so the unsoftened water can be used if needed. Also many yard or garden water taps have unsoftened water. Test the water for each water tap you have any with zero Gh are likely softened water. Also you need to know your PH, Gh, and Kh. of your unsoftened water.

Plants don't need a lot of GH. 3ppm Ca and 1ppm Mg will work but typically more will be needed in tanks with more plants. Based on your photos your plants do show indications of a magneisum deficiency. But it is not really bad. So your water softeners probably didn't remove all of the calcium and magnesium.

It is 0 ppm, I checked to see if there was a tap before the water softener tank and there wasn’t one, the hoses are all still shut off from winter so I can’t check them yet

 

[Byron]

It is 0 ppm, I checked to see if there was a tap before the water softener tank and there wasn’t one, the hoses are all still shut off from winter so I can’t check them yet

What GH test are you using? I have the API liquid for GH/KH and it does not show zero at all, but the first colour change is 1 dH which of course could be less than 1 dH but not more.. It would be worth sorting out the probable reliability of this test.

 

[Tl52505]

What GH test are you using? I have the API liquid for GH/KH and it does not show zero at all, but the first colour is in the 0 to 5 ppm range. It would be worth sorting out the probable reliability of this test.

it is an api 5 in one strip test. my local pet store did not have a liquid one.

 

[Byron]

it is an api 5 in one strip test. my local pet store did not have a liquid one.

If you are on city water (as opposed to a private well), see if the GH is given on the water authority's website. This will confirm (or not) your test number. You only need to confirm this once to know what you have.

 

[seangee]

The test kit I bought said a good place for the gh to be for most tropical fish is 60, which was pretty worrisome since mine read 0.

Those kits just assume average - not too hard, not to soft. 3 Of my tanks have 0GH and its no problem because I keep soft water fish. I do increase it in the fourth because I have shrimp in there - along with fish who don't like it too soft.

 

[StevenF]

If you are on city water (as opposed to a private well), see if the GH

It doesn't mater what the Gh of the city water is. His water softener will remove most of it. his test strips read in ppm. 1 degrees 17.8 ppm. so zero degree water can still have quite a bit of GH. 0ppm no GH is not good.