Water Change for Nitrites

[Dawnn]

Need advice on the different recommendations to do water changes when nitrite spikes or leave it alone allowing the cycle process to work.

 

[Essjay]

That depends on whether there are fish in the tank (fish-in cycle) or no fish in the tank yet (fishless cycle).


If there are fish in the tank, a water change should be done every time a tester shows a reading other than zero. This is because nitrite blocks the oxygen receptors in the blood, effectively suffocating the fish.
But chloride - as in sodium chloride, common salt - can stop this happening. If you are prepared to do some calculation, salt can be used to prevent nitrite harming the fish. Details in the second half of this link

Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il

Part II SO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP CYCLING WITH FISH? If you are determined to ignore the above advice in Part I and still think you want to proceed with a fish in cycle, then you need to be aware of the information presented below. SOME IMPORTANT FACTS ABOUT AMMONIA Ammonia in water exists...

www.fishforums.net

However if it is a fishless cycle, a water change is only necessary if too much ammonia has been added and nitrite is over 15-ish as that stalls the cycle. Our method is designed so that if followed exactly nitrite can never reach stall point.

 

[Dawnn]

That depends on whether there are fish in the tank (fish-in cycle) or no fish in the tank yet (fishless cycle).


If there are fish in the tank, a water change should be done every time a tester shows a reading other than zero. This is because nitrite blocks the oxygen receptors in the blood, effectively suffocating the fish.
But chloride - as in sodium chloride, common salt - can stop this happening. If you are prepared to do some calculation, salt can be used to prevent nitrite harming the fish. Details in the second half of this link

Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il

Part II SO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP CYCLING WITH FISH? If you are determined to ignore the above advice in Part I and still think you want to proceed with a fish in cycle, then you need to be aware of the information presented below. SOME IMPORTANT FACTS ABOUT AMMONIA Ammonia in water exists...

www.fishforums.net

However if it is a fishless cycle, a water change is only necessary if too much ammonia has been added and nitrite is over 15-ish as that stalls the cycle. Our method is designed so that if followed exactly nitrite can never reach stall point.

My tank does have two clown loaches and a bumblebee catfish. I read that salt should not be used with clowns. I do water changes at the least once a week but after the last one on the 27th the nitrites spiked to off the API chart. I'm using Seachum Prime as I ponder what's going on. Fish are happy so far.

 

[Essjay]

The amount of salt used to protect against nitrite is not large enough to harm fish like loaches. It is safer than exposure to nitrite.
The alternative is daily testing for ammonia and nitrite - which should be routine during cycling - and large water change done if either read above zero. If you have clown loaches (ideally at least 6 of them as they are highly social shoaling fish) presumably you have a large tank which does make water changes hard work. But they are necessary to keep the fish safe. Clown loaches are notorious for developing ich if something stresses them.

Prime detoxifies nitrite for something like 24 to 36 hours after which it becomes toxic again. This is to allow the filter bacteria chance to remove it before it becomes toxic. Prime should not be added to a tank between water changes, though, it should only be added to new water at a water change.

 

[Dawnn]

Thank you for the salt advice. That's the only thing that I don't have on hand. The tank is 40 gals and two clowns. I inherited my grandfish from a broken marriage. I really enjoy them and take very good care to keep check on things but sometimes its like a losing battle with water parameters. Municipal water is from deep wells near a major shoreline so the sodium levels are always abv gov standards. Another reason I hesitate to use more salt. Just recently started using Prime aft reading it's praises and for the first time in a long time ammonia levels are 0. I was excited about that thinking finally we have a good process happening. Off to do another water change now..

 

[Slaphppy7]

Welcome to TFF

If you are showing nitrItes, then the same should be for ammonia...ammonia is converted into nitrItes, nitrItes is converted into nitrAtes

What kind of test kit are you using?

 

[seangee]

Good for you for rescuing these fish. In case you have not discovered it yet here is the species profile for clown loach. https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/chromobotia-macracanthus
As @Essjay says they are best kept in groups of at least 6 but before you go out and get them friends they do get really big. If you are planning to get a much bigger tank soon they are lovely fish to keep but they need a lot of space and water. Until then you will need to do several substantial water changes every week, even when the cycle is complete.

Unless you are planning a large tank (around 150 gallons) it may be best to re-home them now and allow the cycle to complete before adding smaller fish.

 

[Essjay]

If you are showing nitrItes, then the same should be for ammonia...ammonia is converted into nitrItes, nitrItes is converted into nitrAtes

What kind of test kit are you using?

Dawnn did say ammonia is finally zero for the first time in a long time so the tank is through the ammonia stage and now in the middle of the nitrite stage. The nitrite stage is always later than the ammonia stage since the nitrite eaters can't start to grow until there are enough ammonia eaters to make nitrite.

 

[Dawnn]

Welcome to TFF

If you are showing nitrItes, then the same should be for ammonia...ammonia is converted into nitrItes, nitrItes is converted into nitrAtes

What kind of test kit are you using?

I use the API test products. I agree, it would seem to have ammonia and nitrite present but that has never been the case. For over two years it's been high ammonia levels but no nitrites.

 

[Naughts]

Need advice on the different recommendations to do water changes when nitrite spikes or leave it alone allowing the cycle process to work.

I have seen arguments for the latter several times on TFF but I really don't understand it. What is the point in prioritising and rushing the cycle at the expense of your fish's health or even their life? I just don't get why people would advocate leaving fish in toxic water

 

[Dawnn]

I have seen arguments for the latter several times on TFF but I really don't understand it. What is the point in prioritising and rushing the cycle at the expense of your fish's health or even their life? I just don't get why people would advocate leaving fish in toxic water

Please share what would you do Naughts. Are you saying that its taken two years to cycle my tank?

 

[Dawnn]

Maybe your saying not to do water changes and let the process work but remove the fish?

 

[Byron]

Other members in this thread are under the impression this tank is being cycled, and with fish in it. Re-reading it again, I am wondering if this is not a mistaken impression, and your initial question had nothing to do with cycling but a nitrite increase. Confirming or correcting this would help all of us I think.

And, so far no number for the nitrite level has been given, and we should know this. I gather ammonia is zero, but please confirm. And what is nitrate?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

@Dawnn

Are posting this on another site using the use name Fishstickss"

If so, I told you there what I will tell you here. If you can afford to spend a bit of money I could help you. By that I mean spending $12.97 on Amazon with free delivery. This is to buy a bottle of actual live tank bacteria. Not only am I pretty experienced in cycling, iI also keep clowns. Here is my 150 gal. clown tank. You cannot see all 11 of them in the pic, sorry.

@Byron
When this was posted elsewhere it indicated that both ammonia and nitrite were an issue. Here is the post from the other site:

I'm back again after endless months, maybe years with no solution to my 40 gal freshwater, 2 Clown Loaches high ammonia and now high nitrites. Read every forum, tried every suggestion, no success. Life exists of water changes and chemicals to detoxify. If i could give this whole thing to someone in maybe a better water area I would gladly.

This is 100% a cycling issue. And it illustrates why the fewer water changes one can possible do during a fishless or even a fish-in cycle are the best way to go, Of course this does not mean if the situation calls for a water change that oneshould not do it.

Nitrite needs no water change in a fishless cyle until the test kit read ov 16 ppm on an API type test kit as this will stall a cycle. Ammonia levels over about 6.4 ppm will stall a fishless cycle as well. So only when those numbers are hit should one do a mid-cycle water change for a fishless cycle.

Fish in are a different matter. When it comes to ammonia, over the short term, the absolute Total Ammonia (NH3 +NH4) number is not as important as knowing how much of that total is in the toxic NH3 form (ammonia) v.s the much less toxic NH4 form (ammonium). What this means is that one tank with 2 ppm of total ammonia can be safe for a bit while in another tank .5 ppm can be harmful.

 

[Essjay]

I think we all thought at first that this was a typical fish-in cycle where the tank had been set up only a few weeks ago and had just gone through the ammonia phase and was now in the nitrite phase. It seems we have been mistaken as post #5 mentions having high ammonia for 2 years.

TwoTankAmin is our cycling expert, I think we need to leave you in his safe hands.