Want To Get A 6x2x2, 180gal(us) Tank , Need Advice For Equipment

[saboy]

Hi all,


Right, i was researching for a 4x2x2, but then saw some other fish i liked and thought i would need a much bigger tank, and it can also take alot more wider choice of fish, so 6x2x2 it is


This is the people im gonna buy from

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/72x24x24-Fish-tank-a...1QQcmdZViewItem

they are a business 10 mins away from where i live so happy days ! also do custom tanks,

Now I have decieded that a sump will be best, but need to know more about wet/dry filters and how to go about about diying one and so on,

the business does marine tanks as well that come with wier, holes, sump and so on, (read in the link)
anyone know what sump tank size they could sell this tank with ? proly the biggest one which comes to over 50 gallons(us) ,

im a newbie to such big tanks, and sumps, wet/dry filters.

oh and what pump would i need for the return pump, i worked out for the tank to turned over 4/5 times a hour, i would need a pump that capable up to 3406 litres un hour !

i found out that it doesnt matter if they are sold as marine tank, also can be used for freshwater, but have the extra area that would be used a refugeem, could this be used for more media ?

about the over flows, woud a tank this size proly come with one in each corner , if not would it be good to have two ? cause the amount of water that needs to get down it, if it doesnt and it is good to have two, then i can request it when they build the tank !

any help in the filtration section would be great !


Now onto lighting, i found out about lighting for a 4x2x2 tank on another forum(not sure if im alowd to say, so i wont) and learn alot from the help i got, and deceided that a luminaire was best, but i havent seen 6 foot luminaires, so if anyone has seen 6 foot ones please do tell ! , this tank also has a hood so tubes could get under, so any suggestions there would be good.


I really like the idea to hide the heaters in the sump ! , cause i plan on have a oscar in the tank, and they are known to break heaters !, plus its also not there for a eye sore !


and thats about it for what i can think of !,


when i do "eventually" get the tank, it will all be documented in a diary

this is all gonna be a BIG learning caurve for me, so i do ALOT of research, especially when its gonna house live animals !

Thanks in advance for any help you give !

Saboy

 

[andywg]

Ok,

Marine ready tanks purely refers to the fact it has a hole drilled and (sometimes) a weir to cover it. If it has a weir, try and make sure it is one with teeth at the top to prevent fish going for a flume ride to the sump.

Also make sure you check out the durso standpipe page (www.dursostandpipes.com) for making the drainage more quiet.

A wet dry works by having the biological media exposed to air and the water running (or trickling - hence its other name of trickle filter) over the media. The extra oxygen allows far more bacteria to grow on the media than if it was submerged. However iut can blocked fairly easily with gunk. There is a way to stop this though.

Basically you will want the sump tank with a tower on top of it. Inside the main body of the tower will be bio-balls (or other such plastic bio-media) and at the top (well, about an inch under) will be a drip plate. I have made one from glass, but drilling lots of holes in sheets of glass isn't fun. You can make one from a condensation tray.

You have the display tank drain onto a load of filter floss (to catch all the floating bits) sitting on the drip tray. The water flows through the drip tray and over the bio media. It then falls into the sump where it can be heated and you can add some more media (or store other filter media so you can always setup a quarantine if you need to).

Then, after a couple of baffles to prevent any bubbles getting into the return, you have the return pump. I run an eheim 1262 on my 6x2x2 and it is sufficient. Remember that you will be looking at at least 4.5 to 5 feet of head on any return so they won't be pumping their quoted LPH.

On size of sump it is up to you. You need to make sure you have enough bio media to fill at least 10% of your tank's volume, and more is better. Your limiting factors would be the height of the stand and how high you want the trickle tower.

As far as lighting goes, it depends on what you want. The sump will make doing heavily polanted very difficult as it will gas out all the CO2 you would be adding. In which case you could make do with a couple of 4 foot bulbs. Most fish don't like it super bright anyway. If you desperately want planted then you should think twice about going for a sump.

HTH

Andy

 

[saboy]

Thanks for all that Info, I wont be going planted, maybe some vallis and java fern, but thats about it.

About the trickle filter, do you know of any good links to build one, or buy one ready done ? Could it be built out of sheets of acrylic ? and making a box sort tower

I was just thinking now, what would the advantages and disadvantages be if i was to go with a sump , or go with the eheim pro 3 filter, I think it would work out cheaper if i was to go with the pro 3. The sump would be good cause it can take alot of media and also adding the extra water to the system,


What do you guys think ?

 

[saboy]

I have been researching things and have found this

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Marine-trickle-tower...1QQcmdZViewItem

Now i dont want that, but is that what you mean by having a trickle filter, and a sump ?

Would one put the normal media in the sump that one would normally put in without using a trickly filter aswell ?

and does a trickle filter just have bio balls in and filter floss first or on the bottom after the water passes over the bioballs ? I would think that it would go after as it will gunk up quickly, or do you no have it at all in the trickle filter and have it in the sump with the sponges ?

Now If it should be like this, I could get the company that build the sump and tank to build me a trickle filter box from glass ,

 

[andywg]

The whole idea of the filter floss is that it gunks up quickly, otherwise all that gunk will get stuck on the bio-balls and stop them working properly. Hence it goes first. I have one running on my 3 and 4 foot stack of tanks and I need to rinse the filter floss about every 3 days at the longest. The fact it picks so much stuff up so quickly shows how effective it is at removing all the gunk in the system.

You can put the normal filter media into a sump and just have more of it. I started this way, but it isn't as effective and have been changing all my sumps to incorporate wet/dry filtration. In the pic below you can see my most recent trickle tower, it is a bit different as it serves on two tanks at once, but the principle is the same: filter floss, drip tray, bio-balls, sump. The tower is on the right of the larger tank. I made it long and thin to fit down that gap.

You were right that the sump would cost more than an eheim filter, but it will allow greater flexibility with stocking.

Oh, and ask your tank manufacturers about bottom fed weirs, a much better way of getting the water from the display to the sump and taking all the crap that settles on the bottom with it.

 

[saboy]

Thanks again for your info, it really does help alot !, nice setup in the pic !,


In the trickle tower, if I was to draw up plans to get one built or build it myself, would the top of the tower just have a hole drilled in ? to take the plumbing ? like the one in the link. and then its all siliconed together ? just like a tank ? but not the needed thickness as it does not have to hold water, on the bottom of the tower, whould you have another drip plate to keep the bio balls inside ? And how are U securing the drip plate/s inside your tower ? , for the inlet pipe from the tank to the trickle tower, how is the water dispersed across the drop plate ? in there sumthing to spread the water out ?

I am a little confused about the sump and wet dry system together, can the tank run alone on just a trickle filter ? or does there need to be other media in the sump,

cause i found this thread,

http/www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtop...ht=wet+dry+sump

some of the picture dont work so cant see how he has done it, but it looks really good, now im wondering, how the media would go in the sump ? are there pictures that there is around showing the sump with media in it and hows the media is set in it and possible with a trickle filter in the picture aswell, cause Im getting confused on what would be best to do with regards to how i set it up, cause in the link the quy had his built in the sump, but then i could also have it out the sump on top.

I know there are various ways to set it all up, im just trying to understand which is best and which is the right way to do things.

 

[andywg]

I have the pipe just drain on to the top of the trickle tower. To disperse it I made the end of the pipe a spray bar, spraying water across the filter floss. Basically, in the same way you might have a spray bar go across a tank (but placed above the water line) so is this, except the supply comes from the above drain.

My trickle tower was made as just 4 sides of glass with two small brace at each end (ideally have them go each way for better support). To keep the balls in at the bottom I have electrical eggcrate (the plastic grid stuff) and the drip tray is made from a drilled condensation tray and sits on the braces at the top.

The pic below shows the tower mid construction. The bits where the gaffer tape is holding are the braces the drip tray sits on. You can also see the eggcrate at the bottom.

You are right on needing less thickness of glass as it will not hold water, mine is made of 4mm glass.

You do not need a sump with media in if you have a wet dry. You will likely need a reservoir of water to hide heaters in and most smaller return pumps wil happily sit in the water (making one less seal to go wrong and flood your floor). I find it a useful place to store media for any emergencies.

I hope that has cleared it up a little...

 

[saboy]

Thats has helped alot ! , Thanks,


Now that you say i dont need sump media if i have a wet/dry, this is good, cause what I would like to have is use a 4 foot sump, and use it as another tank , maybe, i not sure if this can be done, im also not sure where the water level would be, I could make a section for the return pump, and have holes in the divider for the water to flow through


Would this depend on how high i mount the trickle tower ?

 

[andywg]

The height of water in the sump will depend on "backflow". When the return pump is switched off, the water in the return tubes and that is currently above the lowest point of the weir will drain back into the sump.

Generally you are only looking at an inch or two of the sump being filled from the backflow.

You could indeed keep some fish in the sump, I used to use one to seperate male from female guppies (still didn't work, but hey ).

 

[saboy]

So, to see what the water level would rise by is just experiement when I set it up and have it running is turn off the pump and see how much drains and leave the tank enough empty to allow for the draining in the event that there is a power failure or the pump failure


Ive just been thinking how would I would seperate the extra fish tank part from the return pump. I could just silicone some sort of meshing in the tank,

when the time comes when i have money , Im gonna be drawing up plans with measurment n' all ,

Its so exciting !

I just want to say a big thank you to you for helping me with all my questions so far, its helped alot ! ,





Thanks

 

[saboy]

I forgot to mention in all of this is that I want to house big messy cichlids, is a trickle filter up to this ?

Also what size trickle filter would i need ? and the amount of bio balls actually needed ? Ok i Found out, 1 gal of bioballs per 30 gallons, so its 6 gall, but i wll go with much more,

Now I need to look at what wet/dry sump design im going to use , what there be any problems If I was to have a sump/wetdry like the one in the link above, as he is using 2 inlets, now i would need 2 inlets from the overflow, if i was to use 2 in just one overflow then the water demand that the 2 inlets need proly wont be up to the overflow can supply, i will be using standpipes aswell, so i dont know hos this would work,

It will proly be best to have 2 overflows in each corner with each having a standpipe, but im not sure about this, need others to comment


Thanks

 

[saboy]

More questions !!,

With Regards to the plumbing, is there a standard size for the drilled holes ? in the overflow and the return ? and also what size pipe should be good for this size tank and enough for getting a 4 times an hour turnover ? Cause I proly would be buying all the pvc plumbing from B&Q or plumbingh place, anyone know where i could get some of that flexible pipe from ?

It would be the bulkheads for over overflow, return and 1 or 2 depending if i have 1 or 2 inlets to the wet/dry, im not sure here ???

For the drip tray, how big do the holes need to be that i would need to dril ? does then depend on how fast the water is coming to the drip tray ?

I read on another forum that the water should be turned over a max of about 3 - 4 times an hour, because the bioballs need a chance to filter the water ? and also is it true that bio balls are a nitrate factory ? and some other media should also be used to keep the nitrates down ?

 

[saboy]

LOL im just adding and adding replys here


anyways i have drawn up some quick plans on paint, tell me what you guys think !

Im not sure if i should have the two bio chambers together or apart on each side, which do you guys think ?




And this sump, im not sure if a 42 gallon or a 56 gallon would be better, i know that more is better, but 56 gallons is big for a sump ! and would take alot of bio balls,



I just relised that i made the glass dividers too long, by the looks of the pics i made for the sump , the water wont be able to pass over to the pump area without flooding the bioballs, anyway just imagine it not so long !

 

[saboy]

Ok, I have found out that the biggest sump I am gonna be able to get under the stand that comes from the manufacturer is 33 inches long, , when people say that the bigger that better with sumps, does this apply when using the sump to house bioballs, With my plan above in the picture, I have worked it out to hold 7 gallons of bioballs in each side, this comes to 14 gallons together, this is taking into account that that there has to be space for the drip tray, filter floss, and the egg crate at the bottom.



is this a good amount to have for a 180 gallon tank ? I have worked out a way that I can get more bio balls in,if i get the sump made to certain specs

I will make up a drawing to show that I mean with redisigning the sump, and load it up in a bit

 

[saboy]

Ok, now im not gonna be adding any more replies ! ,

Im gonna wait for others to reply !, It would be nice to have a reply from paul_mts , as i know he is using a sump,



Thanks

Saboy