Very Worried About My Fish

[Wanderer]

I'm not happy today......because my fish are not happy. I did a test and the harmful nitrates were up. This hasn't happened before (where the harmful nitrates have shown positive on the tests). The only thng that I did different was I just ran out of Stress Zyme and didn't use it with yesterday's water change. I should get some Prime delivered tomorrow. I got some Wilkinson "Weekly Cleaner" which says it breaks down and converts nitrates and ammonia. I put that in and Ammo Lock.....did ample water changing today.

I'm worried I may lose my fish soon. They are not behaving as they normally do today. They didn't touch their food at first this morning until after I changed the water then they seemed a bit better I think. They have been all at the surface as if trying to get air as fish will do when they are sick. I haven't seen them act this way before. They just aren't being themselves.

The fish in the other tank seem to be doing better (the one with the least in). Although I removed one of them to a temporary make shift hospital tank as he looked very ill. Since I got him a red patch on his side seems to have gotten slightly bigger so I treated him in the makeshift tank with Disease Clear. There is no filter or heater but there is an air Pump and I used the "Weekly Cleaner" and some Ammo lock. The weather is hot so hopefully the water will stay within a healthy range for garra rufa.

I noticed a problem with the filter in the left tank (the one with the least fish in). The side of it is coming away slightly. It may have been like this for some time but gone unnoticed. So the water from inside the filter may be seeping through before it has had ample time to get filtered properly. Some of the media came through the bottom part and I had to rearrange everything again inside it. The bottom part with the sponges were just balancing on a small shelf I noticed, so I may place more sponges underneath just to give it extra support. We are going to find something to go accross the space between the filter compartments to push it back in and reduce the leaking a bit. When I rearranged the media, the water became very cloudy and I'm worried that I have lost some of the good bacteria. I tried to pour the cloudy water back in but a bit difficult because of the leaking side etc. The main tank was full of it so I did a big water change. I tested the water this evening again and it is still showing as having harmful nitrates in it even after adding the Weekly Cleaner product from Wilkinson. Funny enough though, they are not doing what the fish are doing in the other tank- staying at the surface as though gasping for air.

It is a bit heartbreaking; I can't do anything else for them now but wait and see.

 

[phoenixgsd]

nitrates arnt that harmful, every cycled tank has nitrates, do you mean nitrites?

 

[phoenixgsd]

They have been all at the surface as if trying to get air as fish will do when they are sick.

do you have enough surface agitation, or a air stone

 

[DrRob]

Sounds like ammonia/nitrite poisoning, probably caused by that tank being more heavily stocked. Big water change is called for.

 

[Wanderer]

Indeed, apologies, I meant nitrites.

I have already done a big water change but the problem remains. I could do some more again but each time I do, I don't know how much Ammo Lock and Weekly Cleaner (bacteria product) I am removing and I don't want to overdose or underdose. I heard it is difficult to overdose on these things but I am not sure and it says on the Weekly Cleaner not to exceed the reccomended dose. It's all I have to help the nitrates until the Prime comes.

There is an air pump and airstone.

 

[Wanderer]

I'm going to prompty try to rehome most of the fish and keep just about 10 for each tank. I need to get some sealer and try to fix that other filter compartment. It is not working properly because the nitrites are high even after another huge water change last night. The tank with the more fish is ok for nitrites but the ammonia is high, perhaps because a fish died overnight. They haven't been doing the air gasping thing this morning, but they were eating very sluggishly.

Big sigh.

I'm aching all over today from doing so many water changes and from working 12 hour shifts (in a care home). I'm not sure I can keep doing this much longer. Maybe if I only have 10 fish in each tank then I won't need to do water changes as regularly.....once or twice a week rather than once a day?

 

[Wanderer]

Update.....I haven't done any more water changes this morning because I'm expecting a delivery in the mail of some Seachem Prime, which I want to use, although it has't arrived yet. The fish appear to be behaving normally at the moment.....perhaps the Wilkinson weekly cleaner is helping with the nitrites in one and huge ammonia I saw this morning in the other. Maybe it breaks it down to ammonium like Ammo Lock does (it doesn't really tell you much on the bottle; just that it helps break these down and how to use it).

 

[DrRob]

Generally these products ionise the ammonia into ammonium, which is less toxic. It still needs to be processed, and will be by the filter, but it's temporary. It's also the reason why different pH's and temperatures affect how toxic the ammonia is, as they affect the ratio of ammonium to ammonia. These products give it something to work with.

 

[Wanderer]

I got some Prime now. It says it can be used to detoxify nitrates emergencies. Not sure how rapidly it works on ammonia, but if Prime can do all these things, do I really need to be worried about rehoming lots of my fish?

The filter in the other tank looks better; the bottle I used across the compartments to lance it together has reduced the leaking because now the water level inside the filter is higher. I know it will need to be mended properly at some point.

 

[DrRob]

Right, trying to get this clear.

Please correct any of this that is wrong;

You started with a stable tank.

You ran out of dechlorinator and did a water change.

After this the nitrITE levels went up.

You've done water changes and things are looking better.

You now have some seachem prime.


If I'm right and this is the case then what has happened is the chlorine from the water change has killed some bacteria in the filter, as a result some waste wasn't processed properly and you had an ammonia and a nitrite spike, which stressed the fish, the water change since has reduced this and I suspect that the filter may even be recovering already.

If this is the case and the nitrITEs are dropping off, then you're good to carry on with whatever dechlorinator you choose to use.

 

[Wanderer]

Right, trying to get this clear.

Please correct any of this that is wrong;

You started with a stable tank.

You ran out of dechlorinator and did a water change.

After this the nitrITE levels went up.

You've done water changes and things are looking better.

You now have some seachem prime.


If I'm right and this is the case then what has happened is the chlorine from the water change has killed some bacteria in the filter, as a result some waste wasn't processed properly and you had an ammonia and a nitrite spike, which stressed the fish, the water change since has reduced this and I suspect that the filter may even be recovering already.

If this is the case and the nitrITEs are dropping off, then you're good to carry on with whatever dechlorinator you choose to use.

No, I never ran out of dechlorinator. I ran out of Stress Zyme but I still have a big bottle of Stress Coat, and I use double doses as it says you can for slime coat. I would never put untreated tap water in a tank. If that desperate I would at least stand the water overnight or two nights.

 

[DrRob]

Ok, all good.

Do you have any up to date readings on nitrite and ammonia? Will help us to gauge how your filter is doing.

Out of curiosity, how big are these tanks for how many fish?

 

[Wanderer]

Ok, all good.

Do you have any up to date readings on nitrite and ammonia? Will help us to gauge how your filter is doing.

Out of curiosity, how big are these tanks for how many fish?

85-90 litres each, 20 fish in one and 44 in the other. Mostly ranging between 1 and 2 inches, tropical. Just a few are about 3 inches. Not sure how big garra rufa grow but I've read not as big in captivity, around 3 and a half inches but this may be wrong.

I will get back to you on the ammonia.

 

[Wanderer]

Ammonia

I have attached this Seachem Ammonia reader accessory which lasts for a year on the side of each of the tanks. The tank with fewer fish in and the problematic filter is reading 0.05.....although the colour is slightly darker green so maybe 0.08 or so......and in the other tank it is reading 0.05 (it telms you green for alert, pale blue for alarm and dark blue for toxic, with water measurements underneath. Both tanks show green).

 

[PrairieSunflower]

If I understand one of your concerns in the thread somewhere about being concerned about overdosing products. The way I do it is dose the amounts of water I'm adding rather than dosing the entire tank. So, my water container is 10 litres so I dose each 10 litre container I put in wiht the product needed to treat 10 litres.

(dosing medication is completely different than using water products though).