Very New To Cold Water Fish

logley

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Just purchased a Rena Aqua 30 Fish Tank. It is a complete starter setup, including a Rena i1 Filer with carbon

Have never kept fish before so have some basic questions...please bear with me.

1. The tank holds about 25 litres. Looking at putting 2 goldfish, 2 minnows and 3 shrimp it it. Does this sound feasible.

2. Very basic question...the sytem comes with a rena i1 filter. Should this be complety summerged or should the output be just above the water..the reason I ask is that the system doesn't come with an air pump, so a little worried about getting air into the tank.

3. Was thinking of leaving the tank to settle for about a week before introducing fish, is this long enough.

Thanks for answering my noob questions.

Lee.
 
i personally would just add tetra safe start and then add the fish and just keep up the water changes( i know a lot of people will argue that but it has worked for me twice now.

dont know what to reccomend with the filter....did it come with a book??? i would take a guess that it needs to be submerged.

as for the gold fish, i wouldnt reccomend goldfish in a tank this small, they get big and are very messy so they will trash the water very quickly. maybe have a look at some paradise fish instead of the goldfish. they can be kept in cold or warm water and in my opinion they are much better looking and will suit this aquarium a lot better.
 
25 liters is too small for gold fish. For common long bodied goldfish they belong in a pond as they get upto a foot long and for fancies you need 100 liters for 1 and 50 liters for the next and so on as they get to between 4-8 inches depending on genetics and quality of care. If you want to keep it cold water stick to white cloud mountain minnows a group of 7 would do pretty well in that tank.

Leaving the tank a week to settle does nothing, in a filter you grow bacteria to process the chemicals produced by your fishes poo. This is done over a number of weeks in one of two ways either with fish in and lots of water changes or by using house hold ammonia as it creates the same chemicals needed by the bacteria to thrive as needed in a tank to support fish. In the begginers resource section there is a lot of information on both methods. There are a lot of other good articles for you to read in there and its all stuff you wont be told in the shops!

Where the filter outlet is is upto you if you can handle the noise its good to have it out the water but if it is noisy and also effects the level of the water dont worry and just submerge it and point the nozzle up if you can but if not no worries.

Also just to add the paridise fish me499 mentioned are unsuitable as well as they also grow to 4 inches and again in a 25 liter tank the minnows are as big as you want to go.

I would add also if you can afford a small heater for the tank the minnows and shrimp if you add them will appreciate the stable temperature as the temperature can often fluctuate throughout the year and even on a day to day basis it can change overnight to a point it can shock them into disease or death.

Hope thats helped.
Wills
 
yes, Hello logley and Welcome to TFF!

Excellent intro there by Wills, agree with all of it. You have luckily stumbled across a real hobby site and I think you'll find a lot of great and friendly people here.

The minimum water volume for the very fancy goldfish is 20G/76L for the first goldfish and 10G/38L more for each added one. For common goldfish its 30G/114L for the first one and 10G/38L for each succeeding one. They need huge spaces, which makes it all the more strange and sad that society has so greatly confused the message about them. They are really a pond fish mostly.

The most important core learning experience you should try to take away from this beginners section is about the "cycling" of your tank and tanks you may own in the future. As mentioned this is a process done to the filter to prepare it for handling freshwater fish. Your first homework assignment within the Beginners Resouce Center should be first the Nitrogen Cycle article then the Fishless Cycling and Fish-In Cycling articles. There also should be a great tank startup article somewhere by Miss Wiggle.

When fish move water through their gills to get oxygen, they give off not only CO2 as waste (like our lungs do) but also ammonia (unlike us, they don't need to preserve water, so they don't have a fancy kidney, bladder and urine system.) This ammonia coming off the gills is actually quite toxic, ironically, to the gills themselves, but is never an issue in nature because there are thousands of gallons of water to dilute it. In the aquarium, without proper filtration, the ammonia, even in tiny amounts causes permanent gill damage, leading to shortened longevity or death in the fish. Fish waste, excess fish food and plant debris are all broken down in the aquarium by heterotrophic/saprotrophic bacteria (not the beneficial ones we want in our filter) and actually -add- to the toxic ammonia load in the aquarium.

For many, many decades the aquarium hobby has had a wonderful tool to handle this problem. Its called the "Biofilter" and is a very odd thing indeed. It consists of a bunch of stuff, like sponges or ceramic gravel, inside a filter, where we grow two specific species of beneficial bacteria to handle the toxic waste of the tank.

The first of these two species, the Ammonia Oxidizing Bacteria (aka A-Bacs for short and actually a set of genetic morphs called Nitrosomonas spp.) take ammonia and process it into nitrite(NO2) as the first step of our Nitrogen Cycle description. Unfortunately, Nitrite(NO2) is also a deadly poison to our freshwater fish. Nitrite(NO2), even in tiny amounts, attaches to the hemoglobin protein on the red blood cells of fish, blocking the oxygen positions and causing a biochemical reaction that changes the hemoglobin into methemoglobin, rendering it unusuable for oxygen carrying from then on. The effect is similar to a human in a closed garage with carbon monoxide: brain and nerve damage are permanent and happen very quickly.

The good news is that our second species of beneficial bacteria, the Nitrite Oxidizing Bacteria (aka N-Bacs and actually Nitrospira spp.) will readily take this Nitrite(NO2) and process it in to Nitrate(NO3) which is not nearly so toxic to fish. We can then remove the NO3, along with lots of other different sorts of negative things via a weekly gravel-clean-water-change that is a basic part of our maintenance habit.

So that's the magic of the "Biofilter" and we work hard to get it up and working well for our fish. In a very small tank like yours, its somewhat more doable to perform a Fish-In Cycle, as has been described. The size of the water changes are not so bad, although they may still drive you crazy near the end of the month or so they might take. A fishless cycle can be frustrating too, as you are testing and watching for a long time while these very slow-growing bacteria develop to sufficient colony sizes.

One thing you will need no matter what is a good liquid-reagent based test kit. Salifert makes the very best of these but they come as individual kits and are perhaps a bit more involved with tablets or powders. Most of us use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and like it, myself included. The Nutrafin Mini-Master Test Kit is another that works out pretty well. There are still others we don't prefer as much. The tests needed are those for Ammonia, Nitrite(NO2), pH and Nitrate(NO3). Its good to have a couple of syringes from the drugstore to use with the kits.

By now you're probably thinking we're nuts :lol: but its just one of the wonderful things of hobby forums that you can be "jumpstarted" past all sorts of problems that in the past might have taken a long time to learn. Good luck!

~~waterdrop~~
 
Hi logley! Welcome to TFF! Both Wills and waterdrop have you going in the right direction and have given some very good advice. I just want to stress how important it is to have the right size tank for your fish and to have a very good understanding of the nitrogen cycle and how your bio-filter works. Having the correct sized tank and a good bio-filter are essential and will greatly enhance your experience and success with fish keeping.

So, as you can see, it's a little more complicated than throwing fish and water in a tank! There are some very complex and delicate process going on that aren't easily seen without a test kit.

The problem with goldfish is that they are huge waste producers. While I am not sure as to their exact amount of waste produced, it is measurably larger than other fish. To keep them, you need a suitably sized tank with double filtration. The tank volumes outlined above are the bare minimum. I understand that the industry seems to think that keeping a goldfish in a bare glass bowl is humane, but when you throw a test kit into the equation, a very different picture appears. Those poor goldfish kept in bowls are in my opinion tortured. I am not the only one who thinks this way, and I for one boycott any establishment that promotes this cruel practice (same with the betta in a bowl.) But, those are my opinion's and personal choices. Goldfish kept under the proper conditions and fed a proper diet grow fast and large. Having a suitably sized tank will allow your goldfish to live long healthy lives.

Your bio-filter is probably the most important aspect of the hobby and the process that takes place is called the nitrogen cycle. Without it, fish keeping wouldn't be possible. Your bio-filter needs to be able to process waste as fast as it is produced. In order for that to happen, you need a nice home for those bacteria, your filter! The bacteria will attach themselves to the surfaces in your tank like the glass, gravel, and your ornaments. The only limiting factor as to how many you can house is the surface area. The media inside your filter provides a perfect place for them. It gives them lots of surface area to live in along with a constant supply of food (ammonia and nitrite) and a constant supply of oxygen.

If you haven't already, please have a read of the topics contained in the Beginners Resource Center. The articles contained were written by our very own members and are the result of many years of experience.

Hope to hear how everything is going!
 
welcome to the very addicting hobby. dont worry, in a few months you will have a giant tank either saltwater or tropical freshwater. hehheheehehe.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

After reading further on the forum, I'd already decided against goldfish. Think now about 4 minnows and 3 shrimp.

What is the current theory on ensuring enough oxygen in the tank.

Most of yesterday the tank was filled with lots of little bubble. But today I topped up the tank to the black plastic lid, so the light is not directly visible. This in turn placed the output of the i1 filter further under the water (I've raised it as far I can).

Now today there are no bubbles in the tank.

How do you know if there is enough oxygen in the tank? Whats the best method in increasing it if needed?

Sorry if these question appear overly stupid.

Lee.
 
Oxygen is easy. If you have an open surface at the top of the water where air can reach the surface, merely making sure teh water at the top does not stagnate is enough to maximize the dissolved oxygen. Bubblers and such can be artistic touches and can even promote the water flow but do not directly dissolve much oxygen into the water.
You should spend some time reading about how to do a fishless cycle and a fish-in cycle. They are ways of preparing your filter to support your new fish. Until you have cycled your filter, the fish are in danger of being poisoned by their own wastes in your tank. I have links to both kinds of cycle in my signature area at the bottom of this post.
 
As OM47 has explained, surface movement is the way to trust that your water has enough oxygen. It occurs to me that perhaps the bubbles that you were referring to in your tank were the tiny ones that appear after a tank has been newly filled. They appear on the inside glass and other surfaces within the tank. These are actually CO2 mostly, not O2 per se and they are there because the tap water is able to hold more CO2 while under pressure in the pipe system. Once the water is released from the tap, the pressure drops to match the immediate ambient pressure of the air around it and the excess CO2 molecules combine and form tiny bubbles and eventually workt their way out into the air.

All of this is harmless and of no real importance as far as starting a tank is concerned. The real work of starting a tank is all in the "cycling" process to prepare the "biofilter" as has been discussed above.

~~waterdrop~~
 

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