Uv Sterilisers

[Twinklecaz]

Can someone tell me a bit about them? Like how do they work, are they lights or are they attached to filters? and can you attach them to any filter? Or do they need a pump?

I understand what they do but not quite what they are lol.

Oh yeah and which ones would you recommend?

 

[bodge99]

Hello,

UV sterilisers use tubes which are virtually identical to a standard tube, except that they do not have any phospers on the inside surface of the tube. See http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp for more details. The fluorescent tube is mounted within a quartz glass sleeve within the steriliser unit. This sleeve keeps the pumped tank water away from the UV tube. Water passes through the steriliser and bacteria, virii, algae etc. are killed by the UV radiation.

It is important to correctly match the power of the steriliser to the size of your tank. Too low a power rating will result in a setup which is relatively ineffectual.. The actual power requirements are dependant on water flow rate through the unit and UV radiation intensity. Different types of microrganisms need differing amounts of UV exposure in order to kill them. The unit manufacturers ratings (which size for what sized tank etc.) are a good place to start. I personally tend to go slightly larger.

You can connect your steriliser to any pump which can take a pipe connection. Just make sure that the unit goes after the filter (i.e. on the return path to the tank.).
You can buy external filters with built in UV, these save a bit of space but check the UV rating..

The Vecton units are good, as are the JBL ones. I'd recommend that you look for one with hosetails which are held on by collars as opposed to those that just screw into the unit. I've got both types, but the former type is much easier when in comes to cleaning time.
Do a search on ebay for the Vecton v1 (hosetails on the same side) and the Vecton v2 (hosetails offset, also uses collars) and you'll see what I mean.

With any unit, the quartz sleeves are delicate and are often expensive to replace (yep, bust them before). Just be careful and you'll have no problems. I've bought most of my units second hand from ebay. If you decide to go this route then expect to need to do some remedial work (at minimum a really good clean and a UV tube change).

Others here will probably state their own preferences..

Bodge99

 

[Twinklecaz]

HI thanks.

Lol that's something I hadn't thought of.....you need an external filter don/t you.

 

[hillmar77]

There are units out there that come with a pump built in. The one I just got has a pump and is rated for a 100gallon tank
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/342789-let-there-be-light/

 

[Bignose]

Note that UV sterilizer is never 100% effective, because it doesn't treat the entire tank volume at the same time. It can do wonders at knocking a population of something like ich or flukes to a very low level, but it will never be knocked to zero. To knock it back to zero, you have to use medication which does treat the entire tank.

All that said, with a little care, I don't think that they are necessary. If you are being plagued by constant microbe attacks, I think you need to check your caretaking and husbandry. With a quarantine tank, there is almost no reason attacking microbes should get into your show tank. One can have a healthy tank indefinitely without a UV.

 

[Vin Swords]

i would never have a tank without one...

 

[hillmar77]

I think it all comes down to a preference....I compare it to people that prefer tap water vs bottled water. I drink filtered water if not via a brita filter or bottled but alot of people i know drink tap water. For my fish I prefer there water sterilized, it's not gonna hurt them but it just feels good to give it to them since they swim in it 24/7.

 

[Bignose]

[quote name=Vin Swords]i would never have a tank without one...[/quote]

For my fish I prefer there water sterilized, it's not gonna hurt them but it just feels good to give it to them since they swim in it 24/7.

There just isn't a real rational reason why. There isn't anything in the tap water that would get your fish. If you're on a well, that water is isolated. If you're on a utility, the water is sterilized there. On top of that, the microbes that attack fish almost exclusively need fish in their life cycle. For example, ich. If an ich doesn't latch on to a fish during its free-swimming stage, it dies. Most of the parasites that attack fish are similar. There are not fish swimming in a utility's water supply or in your well. Hence, there are no fish parasites in those waters.

So, that leaves introducing new fish as possible vectors for infection. But, as I posted above, that's where a quarantine tank comes in. So long as you aren't impatient, and keep the fish in the q-tank for long enough (6 weeks minimum in my opinion), anything those fish may have will present itself. And you treat in there. If you own a UV for a q-tank, that I can understand.

But, quotes like "I would never have a tank without one" just have no real rational basis. Fishkeeping has been very successful for many, many years without a UV sterilizer. Running one continuously just seems like an additional cost (bulbs and a not insignificant amount of electricity) without any real benefit.

Again, if you want one for a q-tank or for emergencies to quickly reduce the population of the microbes infecting your tank... that I understand. But, continuous use is the definition of overkill in my opinion.

 

[karin]

I have a 9 volt green killing machine that has quickly dealt with green water problems in a 55 and 29 gallon tank. I like having one on hand.

 

[bodge99]

Hello,

I just prefer to have that extra level of security that these units bring me. If nothing nasty can get into the tank via "clean" tap water and good procedures then by this logic, there would be no problems whatsoever with fish disease at all. Of course there is.. A quick scan of any fish forum indicates that there are significant numbers of problems with disease occurance. Is it true to state that all problems are due to inexperienced fish keepers? I personally don't believe this.

Another thing to consider is infection passing the other way. i.e. from fish to keeper. I managed to pick up a skin infection from one of my tanks a couple of years ago. The fish stock were from a reputable source, quarantined correctly etc. etc.
The use of medications at this time caused more problems than they were worth. My first use of UV cleared the problem in a day.

I would say that you don't **need** UV to keep fish, as shown by the vast numbers of keepers who don't use it and have no significant long term problems. My fish stock are worth a great deal to me.. (not financially, but in the time taken in breeding and rearing them). I personally view these devices as essential. Anything that can reduce the chances of problems of potential fish loss must be worthy of at least consideration.

As I've said in other posts, I have had no fish or tank health problems whatsoever since I started using UV.

Just my 10c worth.

Bodge99

 

[hillmar77]

I have a 9 volt green killing machine that has quickly dealt with green water problems in a 55 and 29 gallon tank. I like having one on hand.

There is no doubt nothing will take care of a algae or bacterial bloom better then a uv sterilizer! If you want crystal clear water, a uv sterilizer will do it better then anything else out there! Well today I just got a boiled water advisory from my regional health official! Something must be going on in the water plant or in our pipes?!

 

[Bignose]

Is it true to state that all problems are due to inexperienced fish keepers? I personally don't believe this.

All? No. A great deal, yes. Let me give an anecdote -- there is this myth that refuses to die about ich having a dormant stage. It is all over this forum, many other forums, many other webpages, and many books. Some of the source of this myth can be attributed to crypto, often called "the marine ich", which does have a dormant life stage. But, more of the source of this issue is the fishkeeper whose tank has a case of ich, and they use medication per the instructions and the ich goes away. Except that they didn't keep medicating through several additional lifecycles after all the spots were gone, and a small population of ich survived. The fish don't break out again for many months -- hence it being attributed to a dormant ich! This statement/myth is also reinforced by the very often heard "every fish has ich".

But science does not bear this out. No paper ever written on ich has ever shown a dormant stage. I'm not going to claim to have read them all, but I've read a lot. Peter Burgess (author of many fish books) did his thesis work on ich, and similarly claimed there is no evidence for a dormant stage. He also specifically called the every fish has ich statement "utter rubbish". His contention and mine is that most people do not treat the disease fully. I.e. medicating at full strength for a good 2 or 3 lifecycles after every symptom has disappeared. at tropical temperatures this could be as long as 14 more days. At cold water temperatures this could be as long as 45 or even 60 more days. The lifecycle length of ich is very temperature dependent.

The lifecycle of ich is also fish dependent. As I wrote above, unless the free-swimmer stage of ich finds a fish to latch onto, it dies. It does not go into dormancy or anything like that. Must have fish.

In conclusion, the dormant ich myth is still widely held because of inexperienced or unknowledgeable fish keepers. There really are a large number of problems that aren't treated properly by a large number of fishkeepers. In general, this does NOT include members of this forum, because memebers of this forum have taken extra steps to be more knowledgeable. But, forum membership doesn't ensure that mistakes aren't made. There are still a lot of mistakes made. Quarantining is the biggest one, by far. Most members don't even have a q-tank (there was a poll not that long ago), and even those that do, don't quarantine for anywhere near long enough.

Well today I just got a boiled water advisory from my regional health official! Something must be going on in the water plant or in our pipes?!

Sure, mistakes happen. Emergencies happen. But, of you follow the boil order, the water will be safe for fish as well. And, I'd much rather take the current system and have to occasionally boil (we had a boil order when I live this summer when there was widespread flooding -- every test the utility took came back negative, but they asked us to boil just to make sure) then the situation before there were water utilities. Not having to worry about whether our water is safe or not is a truly significant step in human development. You don't know how much it means until it is gone.

 

[Twinklecaz]

Well the thing is I've had this put to me before "look at why these problems keep happening". I do a 25% (sometimes more) water change twice a week. I have sand so can see that I've hoovered up all the debris. My fish have all been healthy when I've bought them and are fed once a day a varied diet of peas, bloodworm and 3 different flake/granuel food alternately. I use a good decholrinator and except for a couple of weird occasions I have never seen my Nitrates above 20.

Yet this weekend I've had the euthanise both of my Honey Gouramis due to some sort of bacterial infection. The same thing the others died from. It was the same pattern too. Both lots I had for about 2 months with no major problems then all of a sudden they're virtually black and spinning around when they try to swim. This was the first time I've euthanised any fish too because they just looked so awful. So obviously I'm starting to get frustrated and look at what other measures I can take.

If you were me what would you think? If this was your tank? What more could you do?

 

[bodge99]

Hello again.

Twinklecaz: Sorry to hear about the loss of your fish. I think that your sad loss goes some way to reinforce my opinion of the effectivness of UV. A suitable unit **may** have prevented your problem bacterial infection from becoming overwhelming to your fish. All I can state for **certain** is that I have not had any fish or tank health problems since I started using UV. If you decide that you want to go this route, then don't discount buying second hand in order to save a few quid. I bought my biggest unit second hand for £15 from ebay. All it needed was a really good clean, a new UV tube (£6 from ebay) and a little silicon grease on the o-rings.
At a minimum I would now fully strip your tank down and sterilise **everything**.

Bignose: A good example and accurate information. Again here a suitably rated UV unit will kill any ich that happens to be passing through the steriliser. A dead parasite cannot attack any host. I believe a proper tank setup (here I mean adequate water circulation in the tank itself, not what happens to be passing through the filter) coupled with adequate procedures all in conjunction with the use of UV will minimise the chances of problems developing in the first place.

All in all, I'm totally convinced as to the effectiveness of UV and would recommend it to everyone.

Bodge99

 

[Bignose]

Bignose: A good example and accurate information. Again here a suitably rated UV unit will kill any ich that happens to be passing through the steriliser. A dead parasite cannot attack any host. I believe a proper tank setup (here I mean adequate water circulation in the tank itself, not what happens to be passing through the filter) coupled with adequate procedures all in conjunction with the use of UV will minimise the chances of problems developing in the first place.

But, a UV cannot kill 100% of an ich infection. Nothing that only treats a partial volume of a tank can. Whereas medication treats the entire tank, and can kill 100% of an ich population. If medication can do that, again, where is the need for a UV? I see a cost in bulb and electricity to prevent a problem that is totally preventable via other cheaper or free means.