*URGENT* PLEASE HELP NITRITE/AMMONIA SKPIKE

[Stefan3289]

Wait what about prime? I use it for my tank, is there an issue with it?

I use prime as well as my tap water is treated with chloramines, but there has been some skepticism as to whether prime actually does detoxify ammonia and nitrates/nitrites. i had issues with one of my tanks where the ammonia would always read around the .25 mark, and I then added plants to the tank and it hasn’t even went above 0 the last few weeks since they are planted.

 

[Kyanite14]

I use prime as well as my tap water is treated with chloramines, but there has been some skepticism as to whether prime actually does detoxify ammonia and nitrates/nitrites. i had issues with one of my tanks where the ammonia would always read around the .25 mark, and I then added plants to the tank and it hasn’t even went above 0 the last few weeks since they are planted.

That’s odd, my tank has been showing ammonia levels, but the color isn’t 0 OR .25. It’s in between. No matter how many water changes, live plants, or tetra safe start I add it’s always at that mark. Perhaps the prime has something to do with it?

 

[kurtjs]

Yeah it seems as if you hit a dead spot. I tried to convert one of my tanks to sand and it for me at least did no work well. Planting the plants definitely would’ve caused some debris to come up. From what I remember I was told when cleaning sand substrate it that you want to lightly stir up the surface in case there is anything underneath that’s unreachable and then go over the top, but I would not take this advice as fact. I’m sure if you keep up some large water changes focusing on getting as much debris from the bottom it go down quite a lot

Yeah I think it was really planting the plants that disturbed something. I’m hoping the roots start to go and that is supposed to help it in the future.

I did a 70ish percent change this evening and waited about 15 mins, checked and the levels are looking really good compared to the morning. I posed a pic of the better nit and Ammonia levels. I was really just trying to get water out, didn’t try to mess with any debris (there is minimal)

Tomorrow morning I’ll test again and if it’s not showing zero nitrite and near zero ammonia I’ll do another 50ish and try to vaccinate more from the surface. I think it’s going to be ok. I hope it caught it fast enough to keep it from causing long term damage to the fish

 

[Stefan3289]

That’s odd, my tank has been showing ammonia levels, but the color isn’t 0 OR .25. It’s in between. No matter how many water changes, live plants, or tetra safe start I add it’s always at that mark. Perhaps the prime has something to do with it?

I have two tanks both of which I use prime, a 75 gallon non planted and my 29 gallon where I was having the ammonia issues and made planted. Like you said I was having issues where it would be in between 0-.25 (I just said .25 as that was the worst I saw it). What kind of plants have you tried and also what was the hardiness of your water? Also, what kind of water do you add to your tank (tap, well water, already conditioned etc.) I also noticed that with prime, you should shake the bottle before adding it to the water. What I also did to help is on my 29 gallon I run a 20-50g rated filter and I took a bio ball bag (not sure what it’s called) from my 75g and added it into the 50g filter to expand the amount of beneficial bacteria and I think that has been helping as well.

 

[Stefan3289]

Yeah I think it was really planting the plants that disturbed something. I’m hoping the roots start to go and that is supposed to help it in the future.

I did a 70ish percent change this evening and waited about 15 mins, checked and the levels are looking really good compared to the morning. I posed a pic of the better nit and Ammonia levels. I was really just trying to get water out, didn’t try to mess with any debris (there is minimal)

Tomorrow morning I’ll test again and if it’s not showing zero nitrite and near zero ammonia I’ll do another 50ish and try to vaccinate more from the surface. I think it’s going to be ok. I hope it caught it fast enough to keep it from causing long term damage to the fish

It seemed like you caught it pretty quickly and got right to work so I would hope that your fish would be ok

 

[Kyanite14]

I have two tanks both of which I use prime, a 75 gallon non planted and my 29 gallon where I was having the ammonia issues and made planted. Like you said I was having issues where it would be in between 0-.25 (I just said .25 as that was the worst I saw it). What kind of plants have you tried and also what was the hardiness of your water? Also, what kind of water do you add to your tank (tap, well water, already conditioned etc.) I also noticed that with prime, you should shake the bottle before adding it to the water. What I also did to help is on my 29 gallon I run a 20-50g rated filter and I took a bio ball bag (not sure what it’s called) from my 75g and added it into the 50g filter to expand the amount of beneficial bacteria and I think that has been helping as well.

I have Java fern, Green Wendtii, Anubia Frazeri, and Green Myrio. All of which are doing well except the Myrio. I add the Seachem kits with Flourish, Iron, Excel, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. For whatever reason I don’t get any readings after adding Nitrogen or Phosphorus. The green Myrio isn’t dying, but it’s showing some chlorosis on the old needles, which makes me think it needs more nitrate. I do use my tap water, but I condition it with the prime and add equilibrium to have GH at 8. KH is 0-2, which I don’t want to add any KH raisers because I know it’ll raise PH too.

 

[Byron]

I have Java fern, Green Wendtii, Anubia Frazeri, and Green Myrio. All of which are doing well except the Myrio. I add the Seachem kits with Flourish, Iron, Excel, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. For whatever reason I don’t get any readings after adding Nitrogen or Phosphorus. The green Myrio isn’t dying, but it’s showing some chlorosis on the old needles, which makes me think it needs more nitrate. I do use my tap water, but I condition it with the prime and add equilibrium to have GH at 8. KH is 0-2, which I don’t want to add any KH raisers because I know it’ll raise PH too.

There is no point in adding all these substances, they will not help the plants, and they do harm fish over time. Plants need sufficient light (intensity and spectrum) and sufficient nutrients (17 of them) in order to photosynthesize. With respect to nutrients, adding this and that out of balance with the 17 in total is risky for the fish and not likely helping the plants. And excess of some of these can lead to the plants shutting down assimilation of other nutrients. Nitrogen and phosphorus should never be added to a tank with fish, there is plenty of these from feeding the fish. Excel is a very dangerous toxic disinfectant. Iron is highly dangerous. A comprehensive supplement like Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium has the nutrients in balance.

You asked earlier about Prime...I would never subject my fish to this, period. Others will disagree, fine. We have beat this issue nearly dead in more than one thread. I care about what goes into an aquarium with fish.

 

[Kyanite14]

It does seem to be helping my plants though, they’re growing faster and sprouted new leaves. I’ve done multiple tests for nitrate and phosphate and they never ever read above 0, which makes me believe the fish aren’t producing enough in their own. I’m very sparingly adding the stuff, I add most of the stuff twice a week and use half of the recommended phosphate dosage. I’m ordering an iron test kit too to make sure I don’t overdose the Iron. If these are all components plants need to grow, why is adding them dangerous for the fish as long as they’re added in moderation?

 

[Byron]

"Helping the plants" is a subjective assessment, but the bigger picture is, what it does to the fish. Plants do not take up nitrate, they take up ammonia/ammonium and they are faster at this than the nitrifying bacteria [they turn to nitrate but this is involved and costs the plant a lot of energy so they don't until literally forced to]. Phosphorus should never be added, there is way more than enough in fish food. Out basic aquarium test are not very scientific when it comes to testing minerals. Substances added to the water are likely to get inside the fish. Fish continually "drink" via osmosis, and substances in the water than can diffuse across the cell membranes (as minerals can and do) thus enter thefish. The blue citation from Nathan Hill in my signature block is certainly the issue here. Fish managing with what we force on them is not an indication they are healthy.

 

[Kyanite14]

The blue citation? I don't know what that is, and if it’s an article of some sort I can’t find it. I’ve researched the things you said about how plants absorb nitrate, how all of Seachems products are dangerous despite being used in moderation, I’ve checked on multiple sites that aren’t controlled by the Seachem company, but I’ve found nothing that supports what you’re claiming. What are your sources?

 

[Essjay]

I'll mention Excel. It contains glutaraldehyde. Google that and see if you still want it near your fish.

 

[Byron]

The blue citation? I don't know what that is, and if it’s an article of some sort I can’t find it. I’ve researched the things you said about how plants absorb nitrate, how all of Seachems products are dangerous despite being used in moderation, I’ve checked on multiple sites that aren’t controlled by the Seachem company, but I’ve found nothing that supports what you’re claiming. What are your sources?

My automatic "signature" in every post I make contains a blue citation and a green citation. I included these initially because the majority of aquarists, especially beginners, don't seem to comprehend them, but they are part of a successful hobby keeping fish.

The physiology of a freshwater fish is very complex. Fish are more directly tied to their environment than any other animal, because they live in water and the water gets inside them. This is basic biology. Fish live in water, not chemical soups. Every substance added to the tank water has the risk of affecting the fish. Fish swimming, eating and even spawning is no indication they are as healthy as they could/should be. Add to this the fact that when substances are added to the water in an aquarium, the very confined volume compared to any habitat only makes the effect on the fish more dangerous.

 

[Kyanite14]

I'll mention Excel. It contains glutaraldehyde. Google that and see if you still want it near your fish.

Excel uses a polymerized version, there is a bunch of warnings against glutarldehyde, by but none I could find of excels version, even if it is a trade secret, they would still have to follow regulations. Obviously overdosing or drinking the stuff is dangerous, anything overdosed can be dangerous. But using it in moderation doesn’t seem to be an issue. Hospital solutions have higher concentration than excel and aren’t banned. Excel recommends using it at .8mg/l, where fish deaths haven’t been recorded.

LIQUID CO2 WARNING by JBL

Hi all, Interesting read...I think I'll stop using this stuff in my tanks... https://www.jbl.de/en/blog/detail/133/the-story-of-liquid-co2-fertilisation-the-reliability

www.ukaps.org

https://www.reddit.com/r/PlantedTank/comments/7shehb

 

[Kyanite14]

My automatic "signature" in every post I make contains a blue citation and a green citation. I included these initially because the majority of aquarists, especially beginners, don't seem to comprehend them, but they are part of a successful hobby keeping fish.

The physiology of a freshwater fish is very complex. Fish are more directly tied to their environment than any other animal, because they live in water and the water gets inside them. This is basic biology. Fish live in water, not chemical soups. Every substance added to the tank water has the risk of affecting the fish. Fish swimming, eating and even spawning is no indication they are as healthy as they could/should be. Add to this the fact that when substances are added to the water in an aquarium, the very confined volume compared to any habitat only makes the effect on the fish more dangerous.

Fish aren’t going to live in distilled water in the wild, there will always be something dissolved in there. Whether it’s dissolved limestone, coral, decaying matter, there’s always some amount of “chemicals” in the water. As long as the amounts I use are tested to make sure it’s not overdosed, I don’t see the harm. Plus, it’s not like the water stays the same, since I do perform weekly water changes that would dilute what I’ve added previously.

 

[Byron]

Fish aren’t going to live in distilled water in the wild, there will always be something dissolved in there. Whether it’s dissolved limestone, coral, decaying matter, there’s always some amount of “chemicals” in the water. As long as the amounts I use are tested to make sure it’s not overdosed, I don’t see the harm. Plus, it’s not like the water stays the same, since I do perform weekly water changes that would dilute what I’ve added previously.

These are two very different issues. Good luck.