urgent help! my remaining fish's life is at stake!

[scuba_jez]

Hey everyone

I got a new tank the other day, cleaned it all and set it up (it looks pretty swanky!)

anyway, i bought 3 feeder fish (i cant remember the real name but he referred to them as silver dollars... they are small, gold/silver, torpedo shaped and have a black dot near the tail) to cycle the tank - the bloke at the pet shop said they were the only fish suitable. He also said to put the temperature to 28 degrees C (which i was slightly alarmed at nevertheless i rasied to temp to 28). I fed them and slightly adjusted the ph to 6.8 and i got home from uni today to find one dead and i just witnessed another die!

I have an under gravel filter and i just started the cycling today. I read somewhere that i needed to keep oxygen in the water to keep the bacteria alive but there lies the problem - i think that the fish are having to swim too much to stay in one place and its killing them! There is pretty much no way to stop the turbulent flow of water. Also, when i found the first fish dead i turned down the heater to 25 degrees celcius.

currently the filter is off

any ideas? please help - the life of a lil feeder fish is at stake.

thanks

 

[benzonar]

Well first thing is turn your filter back on.

The reason why the fish are dying could be any number of reasons.

Stress
Bad stock
Ammonia
Wrong type of fish

Don't be despondent it happens to the best of us. The fish may survive, it may not.

You need to cycle your tank, and the best way to avoid things like this is to do a fishless cycle. Do a search of the forums and you will find info.

Not much help with the situation of the remaning fish I'm afraid.

 

[modernhamlet]

First, turn the filter back on. You can never leave a tank without a filter for more than a few hours.

Ok... next step. There are a bunch of red flags in your message, but let's start with the water flow issue.

Do you know what brand/model of pump you have attached to the undergravel filter? How does it put water back in the tank? Is there movement at the surface of the water? What makes you think there's too much flow?

Now, some other questions/answers/opinions:

Temperature: 28 is a bit high, but shouldn't be the cause of your problems.

The bloke at the fish store: Moron. Never take his advice again. If there are other fish store options, consider them before going back there.

Adjusting the pH: Don't use chemicals to adjust the pH. It creates an unstable environment that will crash in the longrun. Your fish will adjust to your tap water.

Dechlorinator: Do you use water dechlorinator?

Undergravel filters: Honestly, these are obsolete technology. You can get a hang on the back or internal filter for a 10g tank for a very reasonable price. They do a much better job filtering and are easier to maintain.

Do you have any decorations in the tank? Can you describe them?

Most importantly: Read the articles posted at the top of the Beginner Section. Here's a shortcut: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=88643. Of particular importance is Avoiding and Treating New Tank Syndrome: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

A little knowledge goes a long way in fishkeeping. Please educate yourself about your new hobby and I think you'll find it very enjoyable. If you can do a little reading and answer the questions I've posed, we may be able to save your fish and make this process a lot less stressful for you.

Welcome to the forums!

 

[scuba_jez]

"First, turn the filter back on. You can never leave a tank without a filter for more than a few hours."

The filer was only off for about 45 minutes maximum so i doubt any damage was done (if its possible to do any damage to a one day into the cycle tank)

"Do you know what brand/model of pump you have attached to the undergravel filter? How does it put water back in the tank? Is there movement at the surface of the water? What makes you think there's too much flow?"

My pump is a 'power head' rated at 400L/h. The pump pumps water above the surface of the water and it 'spurts' it down onto the surface of the water. The surface of the water is continually agitated so that bubbles are visible underwater (the smaller ones follow the flow of the water so that they stay under there for a while if u get my meaning). when the water is spurted out and rebounds off the glass it produces a pretty strong current for my little 1 inch long fish which means that he is constantly swimming. it seemed as though the fish were getting worn out to the point of death.

"Dechlorinator: Do you use water dechlorinator?"

yes, i used a product called tri start which says it removes chlorine and chloramine.

"Do you have any decorations in the tank? Can you describe them?"

no decorations just yet, just gravel that had been cleaned thouroughly before being put in the tank.

thanks so much for your quick replies!

 

[scuba_jez]

i stuck a glass tea cup in the tank which the last fish is attempting to sleep in right now in order to get out of the current. poor little fish.

 

[Phantom Thief]

How did you adjust the temperature and pH? Did you adjust while the fish were in the water, or before?

P.T.

 

[scuba_jez]

in the water )



so whats the correct procedure? it didnt seem like there was any real alternative

 

[UBigBobby]

wouldn't go back to that fish shop...if he told you silver dollars were the only starter fish he had...then that places sucks. Most any shops as at east SOME danios or the like that are great for starting.

 

[sarahw20000]

How big is your tank by the way coz silver dollars get pretty big, like about 5 inchs and they're a shoaling fish so once your cycled you should really get a few more?

 

[Phantom Thief]

What method did you use to change the pH? Generally speaking, most fish cannot tolerate drastic pH changes, though the definition of drastic is different with every fish.

Possibly that, coupled with the stress of being moved to a new tank, is causing this. For now, just don't change anything in the tank, maintain the pH and temperature, and just let things settle down. What's the size of the tank? (if it was mentioned before, forgive me, i must have missed it )

P.T.

 

[playfulalliecat]

First things first, if you can adjust the flow of the pump on the filter that's great. I have never had any problems with an undergravel having too much current but I don't use those anymore because they really don't filter waste as well as some of the others.

Don't adjust ph, it is too hard to keep the ph steady when you start adjusting. I have kept fish for years and still wouldn't attempt that.

As for the cycle, I would go back to that fish store and ask them for some gravel from an established tank. This would give you a bit of bacteria to speed up the cycle. If you had a power filter, you could ask for a bit of floss or other medium which actually works very well but that wouldn't work with an ugf. You need to get a test kit with ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Test these daily and do small water changes daily until the ammonia reads 0, nitrites reads 0, and you show nitrates. That is when you know your tank is cycled.

You may lose the fish you have. That has happened to most of us at one time or another. It is really sad but that is what happens when you don't cycle properly.

The problem can be fixed! If you can't get used gravel, then by all means do frequent water changes, feed very sparingly, if at all, and test the water daily. I lost around $100 US in fish when I didn't cycle properly. In the past, I had always started out with one or two fish and never had a problem but at this particular time, I started a 55 US gallon with about 25 fish. That was not a pretty site! We made it through and have never had the trouble again.

Good luck!

Allie

 

[scuba_jez]

i have some sad news

the remaining fish died sometime during the night.

anywho...

"How big is your tank" its 28 litres - about 7.5 gallons?

whats really annoying is when i walked into the petshop to buy the fish i said, i needed a nitrate, nitirite, ammonium, and ph test kit and the guy looked at me like i was from another plannet.

as for a method to change the pH, i used a powder that came with the kit the bloke at the pet shop told me to use, the 'pH down' is sodium biphosphate. which i added as to the instructions.

ive gotta rush off to work!

thanks for your replies.

since the last fish died i think i might as well do a fishless cycle

btw does anyone know why the water is cloudy now? maybe ammonium - but they were only in there for less than 24 hours....

 

[alabaster]

jez--since your starting the cycling process over again, consider strongly getting a HOB (hang on back) filter. They work better than UG filters, and they don't require an air pump to create surface turbulence and thus cause oxygen to be absorbed into the water. The best part is the price. My favorite brand is Penguin, and the appropriate size filter for your tank (Penguin 100) is 17 USD at petsmart.com. If you are in the UK, thats about 9 1/2 pounds. I thouroughly recommend the Penguin BIO-Wheel HOBs, but the Hagen Aquaclear filters are also well-respected (some think they're superior). Anyway, if you like, try out a HOB, and I guarantee you'll be more satisfied with it than with an UG.

Oh, and as to your question about the cause of the cloudy water, it could be waste, decaying fish food, or (more likely) dust from your gravel. Did you wash the substrate thouroughly before you added it to the tank? If you did, the cloudiness is probably due to either excess fish food or waste.