Upgrading Roma To Led

Shifty1303

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Hey all,

Anyone have experience of upgrading to LED lighting? I want to change my Roma 200 from the T8 tubes to an all Led system but not sure how to best do this with the integrated light unit. Are Led strips good? Alternatively is there anything that can fit in the existing T8 mount without suffering from heat issues?

I looked at complete Led units from fluval that sit over the width of the tank but the top of the Roma is not exposed glass so don't know if these would work. Also I couldn't have a lid on if I used one of these.

Any thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated!

Shifty
 
I upgraded my Roma 90 to LED by removing the lid and using goosenecks and LED bulbs instead of trying to keep the lid.
Clams and corals are thriving in that tank.
 
I assume Shifty that this is over freshwater...I have tried LED more than once, but all ended in failure with the LED units going back to the store and my staying with T8 fluorescent.  Only last week another failed attempt.
 
LED can certainly work, but you have to know exactly what you are getting.  If live plants are involved, there is the intensity issue.  And aside from this, the colour hue.  I find LED to be very cold white, due to the high blue and little if any red in the colour temperature.  One unit I had turned the tank goulish, and the Diamond Tetras became purple fish.  I do not find this pleasing to look at.  And the plant colours were all sort of grayish green, very odd.
 
There is also the cost factor.  LED are still quite expensive, but beyond this I look at the electrical use.  LED is supposed to be economical because it uses less energy, but this is not always the case.  One of the LED units intended for planted tanks uses 35 watts of power.  But when this is compared to adequate T8 fluorescent over the same size tank (which I have) at 17 watts...you end up using double the electricity for the LED.  That is certainly not a savings.
 
Byron.
 
My discus tank is lit by LEDs in goosenecks too: the plants are doing fine and the colours are lovely.
 
Of course as you've said you need to know what you're doing. Mine are normal household LED spotlights, 2x36w bulbs for a 4 foot tank. On ebay they are described as "cold white" but they are 6500K as colour, which is basically sunlight's colour. Make sure they are around 6500K, don't just look at the description they use because "cold white" is just a generic description, not a standard.
 
You mention the cost of running them: I used to have 216w of T5s over that tank, and with 72w of LEDs I have the same light (if not more, I can't remember how it looked when I had the T5s over them).
Consider also that you won't be replacing LEDs for years, while you should replace the tubes every year.
 
Interesting points thanks guys. It is freshwater yes Byron. Was looking at arcadia classica led bulbs to replace the T8 ones but if the issues are as you say then might just get new T8 tubes.

Could you guys take a look at the above mentioned bulbs in sunlight and tropical colours and give me your thoughts?

Thanks again :)
 
Shifty1303 said:
Interesting points thanks guys. It is freshwater yes Byron. Was looking at arcadia classica led bulbs to replace the T8 ones but if the issues are as you say then might just get new T8 tubes.

Could you guys take a look at the above mentioned bulbs in sunlight and tropical colours and give me your thoughts?

Thanks again
smile.png
 
This is for T8, correct?  I have tried many T8 tubes (as mentioned, I am still using these over most of my tanks).  From looking up your Roma 200, I assume it has two fluorescent tubes (T8), correct?  How long are the tubes?  And what are they now (there will likely be data at one end of the tube)?
 
Byron.
 
Byron said:
Interesting points thanks guys. It is freshwater yes Byron. Was looking at arcadia classica led bulbs to replace the T8 ones but if the issues are as you say then might just get new T8 tubes.
Could you guys take a look at the above mentioned bulbs in sunlight and tropical colours and give me your thoughts?
Thanks again :)
 
This is for T8, correct?  I have tried many T8 tubes (as mentioned, I am still using these over most of my tanks).  From looking up your Roma 200, I assume it has two fluorescent tubes (T8), correct?  How long are the tubes?  And what are they now (there will likely be data at one end of the tube)?
 
Byron.
Correct yes. Two 34 inch T8 tubes. Hagen power glo and aqua glo fluorescent
 
OK.  First thing, is that fluorescent tubes need replacing every 12 months or so.  As they burn they lose intensity, and rather significantly.  I have experimented with the good tubes (the "Glo" series) and found that they may last a bit longer, but once I got to 14 or 15 months I noticed algae becoming a problem, which was due to the tubes weaking so the plants could no longer photosynthesis as much, resulting in algae taking advantage.  So I now replace them every 12 months.  The other thing is that with two tubes, you can do them alternately, 6 months apart; this means that the lessening of the intensity will not be quite as much at any given time.  However, if you use different spectrum tubes (as here) it is better to replace both at once.  The shift in spectrum can affect plants.
 
I personally find the Power-Glo and Aqua-Glo rather purplish.  The Aqua-Glo is also much less intensity, while the PG is a more intense light.  I use the Life-Glo on all my single tube tanks.  On the larger tanks with two 48-inch tubes, I prefer a mix of warm and daylight, so one 6500K (the Life-Glo is 6700K so this one) and one slightly warmer at 5000K.  The Hagen Sun-Glo might approximate this; for some reason I cannot find the Kelvin for this tube online.  But if it is around 5000K, this would be good with the Life-Glo.
 
If you want to move to another manufacturer, the ZooMed line is excellent too.  The UltraSun is 6500K (comparable to Life-Glo) and the TropicSun is the warmer 5500K.  This combo would in my view be perfect.  The colours of fish and plants are true (they are not true with the Power-Glo or Aqua-Glo) and the "daylight" range has been shown to promote plant growth better.  I am planning on setting up a tank with a 3-foot fixture within the next few weeks, and I intend to go with these two tubes.
 
Hope this helps, but feel free to question.
 
Byron.
 
Byron said:
OK.  First thing, is that fluorescent tubes need replacing every 12 months or so.  As they burn they lose intensity, and rather significantly.  I have experimented with the good tubes (the "Glo" series) and found that they may last a bit longer, but once I got to 14 or 15 months I noticed algae becoming a problem, which was due to the tubes weaking so the plants could no longer photosynthesis as much, resulting in algae taking advantage.  So I now replace them every 12 months.  The other thing is that with two tubes, you can do them alternately, 6 months apart; this means that the lessening of the intensity will not be quite as much at any given time.  However, if you use different spectrum tubes (as here) it is better to replace both at once.  The shift in spectrum can affect plants.
 
I personally find the Power-Glo and Aqua-Glo rather purplish.  The Aqua-Glo is also much less intensity, while the PG is a more intense light.  I use the Life-Glo on all my single tube tanks.  On the larger tanks with two 48-inch tubes, I prefer a mix of warm and daylight, so one 6500K (the Life-Glo is 6700K so this one) and one slightly warmer at 5000K.  The Hagen Sun-Glo might approximate this; for some reason I cannot find the Kelvin for this tube online.  But if it is around 5000K, this would be good with the Life-Glo.
 
If you want to move to another manufacturer, the ZooMed line is excellent too.  The UltraSun is 6500K (comparable to Life-Glo) and the TropicSun is the warmer 5500K.  This combo would in my view be perfect.  The colours of fish and plants are true (they are not true with the Power-Glo or Aqua-Glo) and the "daylight" range has been shown to promote plant growth better.  I am planning on setting up a tank with a 3-foot fixture within the next few weeks, and I intend to go with these two tubes.
 
Hope this helps, but feel free to question.
 
Byron.
thanks again Byron.
 
I should definitely replace the tubes then. been at least a year since the last two. Could as you say explain my present difficulties with algae too.
 
I will try and track down some ZooMed bulbs here in the UK!
 
thanks again Byron.
I should definitely replace the tubes then. been at least a year since the last two. Could as you say explain my present difficulties with algae too.
I will try and track down some ZooMed bulbs here in the UK!
 
 
I've only recently found two local stores that now carry ZooMed.  I had a source six years ago that closed, so I am looking forward to getting these again.  But as I mentioned previously, the Life-Glo and Sun-Glo should be pretty similar.
 
On the algae, what exactly are the problems...nothing about algae has been mentioned here.
 
Byron.
 
Byron said:
 
thanks again Byron.
I should definitely replace the tubes then. been at least a year since the last two. Could as you say explain my present difficulties with algae too.
I will try and track down some ZooMed bulbs here in the UK!
 
 
I've only recently found two local stores that now carry ZooMed.  I had a source six years ago that closed, so I am looking forward to getting these again.  But as I mentioned previously, the Life-Glo and Sun-Glo should be pretty similar.
 
On the algae, what exactly are the problems...nothing about algae has been mentioned here.
 
Byron.
 
you said that diminished light output = plants not photosynthesising to their potential = algae takes advantage? and my algae situation is odd. only grows on front glass of aquarium as green rather than brown algae. Had some snails before keeping it under wraps too but I have given up stocking them now due to complications if/when I have to use medication.
 
already found a UK stockist of ZooMed bulbs going for around £15 each too! link below for anyone else in UK interested in heeding Byron's advice:
http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/catalogue/zoo-med-fluorescent-aquarium-lamps-g533-526.asp
 
you said that diminished light output = plants not photosynthesising to their potential = algae takes advantage? and my algae situation is odd. only grows on front glass of aquarium as green rather than brown algae. Had some snails before keeping it under wraps too but I have given up stocking them now due to complications if/when I have to use medication.
 
 
This is likely because of the present lighting, for two reasons.  I don't know your level of experience /knowledge, so I will backup a bit so it is hopefully clearer.
 
First, algae is natural and normal, and a healthy aquarium will always have some algae.  Keeping it under control requires a balance between light (intensity, spectrum and duration each factor in) and available nutrients [I'm assuming plants are present].  Second point is that different types of algae will occur in different aquaria, for reasons not exactly known.  I remember the former planted tank columnist in TFH writing more than once how she had different species of algae in different tanks in her fish room, in spite of the fact that lighting and conditions were pretty similar throughout.  Be thankful you only have algae on the glass to deal with, as this is easy to remove during the water changes.  I always get saddled with brush or beard algae when my lighting/nutrient balance is out.
 
In your situation, you have a quite strong tube (the Power-Glo), along with a much weaker (the Aqua-Glo is around 1/3 to 1/2 of the intensity of the PG).  But both are high in the blue (primarily) and red, with very little green/yellow.  So right off, the plants are having a harder time of things.  And not surprising, blue light does seem to encourage algae.  Tanks that use high blue lighting tend to have more algae issues; I know, I've been there.
 
Depending upon the plant species you have--some species are faster growing thus requiring more light/nutrients, others are slower growing requiring less--algae may be at an advantage just from the light intensity/spectrum.  Aquatic plants will photosynthesize to the max, provided they have sufficient light intensity and nutrients are all available.  As soon as any one factor lessens, photosynthesis may slow down.  This is referred to as Liebig's law of minimum, a principal of agriculture developed by Carl Sprengel but made popular by Justus von Liebig: growth is not controlled by the total resources available, but rather by the resource that is scarcest, hence the law of minimum.
 
Assuming you achieve the balance for the specific plants (species and numbers), once the tubes weaken past a certain point the light may become less able to drive photosynthesis, and when plants slow down photosynthesizing they need less nutrients, so these become food for algae.  Algae is never as fussy over light or nutrients as higher plants.
 
Snails help controlling algae, and I consider them useful in every aquarium because they eat all the organics (fish excrement, etc) which breaks it down faster for the bacteria, and thus it gets to the plants.  But an imbalance of light/nutrients can easily overwhelm the biological system and only restoring the balance will solve problem algae.
 
Byron.
 
 
 
I find LED to be very cold white, due to the high blue and little if any red in the colour temperature.  One unit I had turned the tank goulish, and the Diamond Tetras became purple fish.  I do not find this pleasing to look at.
This can happen if the LEDs used in the buld have a low Color Rendering Index.  Cheap bulbs have low values. while many quality bulbs use bulbs with a CRI of 80 or higher.  The maximum CRI available is 100.  Cree bulbs tend to be around 90 from what I have seen.   
 
 
 
 but beyond this I look at the electrical use.  LED is supposed to be economical because it uses less energy, but this is not always the case. 
LEDs are a little more efficient than Florescent bulbs and much more when compared to incandescent.  However LEDs operate at 3VDC while the wall provides 120VAC.  Good quality bulbs use efficient converts to get convert the outlet power to what the LEDs need.  However cheap bulbs are cheap because they don't have efficient converts.  So when it comes to LEDs you get what you pay for.  Higher priced bulbs are typically more efficient and last longer.  The Cheep Chines knockoff will not be as efficient, have lowCRI, may burn out after a few months of use.  
 
there are LED T8 bulbs on the market.  They simply plug into your existing light fixture but use LEDs as the light source.  If you can determine the lumen output, color temperature,  you can go on line and look for a T8 bulb with equivalent specs.  You could then plug them in and and compare the result with Fluorescent bulbs.  If you don't like the result put the old bulbs back in.  I don't have a fluorescent fixture and haven't tried the these LED bulbs.  My preference would be LEDs made by Philips, Cree, or sylvania.
 
Awesome. Thanks again both.

Byron as always that was an educational and insightful read so thanks for that! Do you use ferts or co2 in your tanks? Been deliberating as to whether they are worth it.
 
Shifty1303 said:
Awesome. Thanks again both.

Byron as always that was an educational and insightful read so thanks for that! Do you use ferts or co2 in your tanks? Been deliberating as to whether they are worth it.
 
StevenF has provided some valuable information; I will dig into that for my own use.  I do know that I have never come across the brands mentioned locally, and I have been very hesitant to spends hundreds of dollars "sight unseen."
 
On the question of fertilzers, yes, I use some.  I do not use CO2 and never would, as I do not want an aquatic "garden" but just some live plants for water quality and aesthetics.  The two are very different approaches.  Many planted tank enthusiasts have high-tech systems that are intended as underwater gardens, with few or even no fish.
 
CO2 is a bit misunderstood.  The prime source in an aquarium is the breakdown of the organics in the substrate.  Respiration of fish, plants and bacteria produce CO2 but no where near the level occurring from the substrate.  Some may also enter from the air.  The aim is to balance that CO2 level with light and other nutrients, all of which can be artificially supplemented.
 
A comprehensive liquid supplement is usually the first thing to add.  Increasing trace minerals (including iron) is sometimes beneficial.  And then there are substrate tabs that help larger plants like swords.  It all depends upon the number and species of plants, fish load, water changes, and feeding.
 
Byron.
 

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