Update: Swollen Face / Growth

[r.w.girard]

SEE BELOW

Yesterday, we were very happy because we saw definitive proof for the first time that our crowntail betta was making bubble nests. We had thought that he might be but had never seen him in the act and the surface agitation is enough to make them not last overnight.

Well, this morning I found a large growth on his right side of his face, between his mouth and this eyes. [His upper lip was already damaged when be bought him months ago.] I did some preliminary research but found nothing that gave these symptoms, although some sort of bacterial infection could be possible. Anyway, I pulled him out of his community tank and put him in his 2.5 gallon hospital tank. I had done a water change two days previous and another in another tank so I didn't have any left over water. So he is in water taken from his old tank, which I will replace as soon as possible.

So far, I have dosed both Pimafix and Melafix, and I added some aquarium salt just to be nice. I also have both Maracyn and Maracyn II but I have used neither as I am not sure what the problem is. I could dose both at the same time to be sure but I was hoping you would be able to make some recommendations. They would be greatly appreciated.

-Robin

Tank size: 10g
pH: 7.6
ammonia: 0 mg/L
nitrite: 0 mg/L
nitrate: 20 mg/L
kH: 4º
gH: 12º
tank temp: 82º+ [ambient temperature is in high 80s to low 90s]

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): The betta has been swimming around, mostly at the top of the tank and eat with gusto this morning as always [he tends to overeat as he will eat anything including zucchini/courgette]. He seems to have, only on the right side of his face some sort of growth or sore. I am not sure if it is "open" as his is red to begin with, but it is possible. I do not think it was there yesterday. I am sure I would have noticed as I spent a bit of time looking at him. He does not seem to be particularly short of breath. A picture is included below, at the end of the post.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: Weekly 3g water changes with gravel vacuuming of unplanted areas.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: I use a Marina Slim S15 filter with three Bio-Carb cartridges as well as a Seachem Purigen for discoloration form the Mopani driftwood in the tank. I had been using a mixture of Seachem Acid Regulator, Acid Buffer and Neutral Regulator to help acclimatize my green neon tetras to the tank, but have not been using for a few weeks to get them used to my tap water [they seem to be doing fine in harder water]. I have also been using API CO2 Booster for roughly two weeks.

Tank inhabitants: 1 male crowntail betta Betta splendens, 13 green neon tetras Paracheirodon simulans, 3 otocinclus Macrotocinclus affinis, 2-3 ghost shrimp [unknown species from PetSmart], 1 ivory mystery snail Pomacea bridgesi and various plants [I can give a complete list if necessary].

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): Nothing new. I had put some left over Hemianthus callitrichoides in the tank two weeks ago but I took it all out a few days ago because the shrimp has eaten all but the stems. He also was ripping them out of the substrate [not too hard, considering].

Exposure to chemicals: Nothing not listed above.

Digital photo (include if possible):

mon combattant souffrant

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

It looks like Mouth Rot or the beginnings of a similar bacterial infection. The Pimafix & Melafix may be enough to treat it, if not move to a stronger anti bacterial med. Mouth Rot is caused by an anoerobic bacteria, so although you gravel vac the tank fairly regularly you should try cleaning under the planted area's too.

 

[r.w.girard]

I thought I would just add a picture from day two. There is no white cotton but there does seem to be some white [maybe white blood cells?], making me think that it is an ulcer or something. As for mouth rot, maybe. He DID have it before [as you can tell from the lip]. Maybe the ulcer is growing [or decomposing!] over the damaged flesh. I don't know. But it looks worse.

I've been giving him Maracyn [not 2], Pimafix and Melafix, in salted water. Sound good? Is there a better course of action to take?

I am sorry the picture isn't great. He has been spending a lot of time in the corner, so it is a bit hard to get a "clean" shot of his face.

 

[r.w.girard]

UPDATE

Day four of my betta's illness has taken a turn for the worse, it seems. The betta is still swimming around on occasions and still has a healthy appetite but its illness seems to be significantly worse. Day three had shown very little change. While it was somewhat worse, the lack of pronounced progression had seemed like a positive thing.

My current treatment plan: 1.2 mL Pimafix per day, 1.2 mL Melamix per day, .25 packet of Maracyn per day [after initial doubled dose] with .75 tsp salt per gallon, a small wad of java moss to help with waste build-up and an airstone to increase circulation [currently no filtration].

It is worth noting that because of the Maracyn, I have not been changing the water in the hospital tank. After tomorrow, the first treatment cycle will be finished. It has not seemed to be particularly effective. I could therefore stop treatment after tomorrow and begin a new one or start introducing daily water changes.

The original "diagnostic suggestion" that I received was for mouth rot. However, looking at these last three pictures, most notably the third, it looks almost parasitic, like something is coming out of this face. Confirmation of mouth rot or other suggestions are greatly appreciated. I have found no diseases that fit this description thus far.

1. You can see the original "growth" as well as a second, which is located below the eye. You can also see pretty clearly the previous damage to its upper lip.

2. Here, the size of the growths are most obvious, although everything else is a but more difficult to see, apart from the upper lip.

3. While the second growth is a bit obscured, the first is clear. You can see that it is something round protruding a one millimeter or so from a whole in the side of its cheek. There is clearly no telltale "cotton" on the body, face, or lip.

Because I am at such a lose, any new ideas would be of great help!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

The clearer pictures help .

It looks a lot more like an ulcer to me. That white stuff coming out is puss. Here is a picture of an almost identical ulcer on a female Betta in this disease picture index;

http/www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http/www.babyofmine.co.uk/MemberSites/Bettas/photos/cocobite.jpg&imgrefurl=http/www.bettas.org.uk/forum/index.php%3Fpage%3D6&usg=__Os0wcGHlGyIvJ2koJDckU1bWQdM=&h=412&w=500&sz=37&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=STaRIv1eWRl9UM:&tbnh=168&tbnw=212&ei=MLfrTarEFY3LtAat7OGACQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DUlcer%2BBetta%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D661%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=423&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=148&ty=74&biw=1280&bih=661

Ulcers are aggressive internal bacterial infections. Is the hospital tank filtered at all?

 

[r.w.girard]

It looks a lot more like an ulcer to me. That white stuff coming out is puss. Here is a picture of an almost identical ulcer on a female Betta in this disease picture index;

Ulcers are aggressive internal bacterial infections. Is the hospital tank filtered at all?

Thank you. I felt the same way, although all of the picture of ulcers that I was able to find were huge [like this one HERE].

I didn't want to use any filtration because the filter that I would use for it has carbon in it and I did not want it to take the medications out of the water. Yesterday, however, I was able to take a cartridge depleted of carbon from another tank. So, yes, the tank is now filtered. I also have two little bundles of java moss in there [I wrapped fishing line around them so that they would not spread out or break apart].

Tomorrow I will be doing a 50% water change and beginning treatment again, this time using both Maracyn and Maracyn II, as the later specializes in internal bacterial infections, no?

Anyway, today that side of his face looks a lot better, almost as though it is beginning to heal [we won't be holding out breath though], however, the other side is looking a little red and puffy, although I do not yet see any lesions. Hopefully with better water conditions in the hospital tank and medications, it will clear up quickly.

Does that sound good? Or is there another course of action you would recommend?
-Robin

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I would advise transferring some of the muck from one of your established filters to the new filters sponges to help transfer some of the beneficial nitrifying bacteria as you don't want to get water quality problems in the tank. Make sure the carbon sponge is totally spent otherwise it'll remove the meds you put in the water.

Other than that, yep ulcers need an anti internal bacterial medicine (so the Maracyn stuff should be good). Personally i've successfully treated ulcers before using "anti internal bacteria" by Interpet. Ulcers heal best in very clean water- you can do water changes in the tank as long as you replace the lost meds . Ulcers can take a while to heal so just keep up the medication, partial water changes & good food (try feeding him some fresh or frozen bloodworms or krill) and the fish will have a good chance of making a full recovery.
You may want to switch to Stress Coat dechlorinator by API as not only does it dechlorinate water but it also helps replenish fishes natural slime coats (helping protect them from disease, particularly if the slime coat has been damaged from physical injury, fish being netted up or damaged by infection etc) .

A lot of the picture on fish ulcers available are pretty much all of really advanced cases- what happens when the ulcer isn't noticed & treated and the ulcer develops into a full blown raw open cavity in the fishes body. But i definitely think the Betta has an earlier stage ulcer as i once treated exactly the same thing on a goldfish a few years ago (except the goldfish had 2 ulcers on its side under the scales).