Untreatable Fin Rot?

[naomi181]

My black moor goldfish has had very slow progressing fin rot since I bought him, I have now had him about a year. I have tried to treat this on about 6 seperate occasions with different medicines but it won't go away. It started off that his tail was shredded but now the ends of the anal fins are tattered and the pelvic fin has got small holes in it. He also spends alot of time 'playing dead' floating at the top of the tank with his fins drawn in, which he has also done since i bought him. He once got white patches all over him, but i used a general medication and this cleared up.

He is in a 60l biorb by himself and i have tested the water and the readings are 0 nitrite, 25 nitrate and pH 7.5. The medications I have tried are King British dissease clear, Interpet anti fungus and fin rot and Tetramedica Goldmed. Each time I used them I took the carbon out the filter and treated for the full amount of time.

I am getting quite worried now because this morning he was looking misserable clamping his fins, and the fin rot seems to have reached the base of the tail. Please could someone tell me a fin rot medication that they know to be effective, or give me some advice on why this condition won't go away.

 

[black angel]

sounds like he has an internal problem too what with the floating. are you just feeding flakes? if so try and get some sinking granules instead. Starve him for 3 days and then feed him a squashed cooked deshelled pea for the fibre. have you noticed his poo at all? normal is short and brown.
the finrot may be secondary to what is happening inside.
how do you clean the filter out? is it under the tap or old water from the bowl?
Maybe as well try another tank...biorbs arent the best to keep goldies in due to low surface area for oxygen transfer. goldies need a lot of oxygen.
How often do you do a waterchange and how much? got a temperature for the bio?

normally i would suggest salt dips for fin rot but i think your fish is just too sick to be able to take them.

 

[naomi181]

I feed a mix of sinking and floating pelets, i have never fed flakes. I have tried feeding him peas but he just spits them out again. I will try squashing it and see if he eats it then. I think his poo is normal because i'v never noticed it trailing or anything.

It sounds possible that it is an internal problem because he tends to look worse a while after being fed, now i haven't fed him for a while you wouldn't know there was anything wrong apart from the tail. Also after using a general medicine he improved for about 2 days and stopped floating at the top of the tank. Do you think I should try a medication for internal bacterial problems?

I clean the filter in aquarium water for the bacteria, but every 5 weeks i have to replace the entire filter which might be a problem. I also add bacteria to the water every week using king british safe water but i'm not sure how effective this is.

I do a 30% water change every time the nitrate level gets above 40ppm which is about every 3-4 weeks. Should i be doing water changes more often?

The water temperature is 21 degrees celcius which is probably too warm especially considering the oxygen is already low because of the low surface area of my tank. Is there another way I can add oxygen because I can't afford a new tank as i'm goin to university next week!

 

[Honeythorn]

Argh. That's one of the reason I hate biorbs, really awkward things I think. And seriously not suitable for goldfish.

When you replace the whole of the filter media/cartridge , you've basically thrown away your helpful bacteria colony. And when you add a new cartridge, your tank has to cycle all over again.

You should be doing weekly to twice weekly water changes on a tank that small, certainly not when your nitrates shoot up like that.

You're exposing your fish to a lot of waste and ammonia by only doing a 30% water change roughly once a month. That, along with the fact you throw away your filter media every few weeks is really going to hinder his recovery and possibly worsen his condition.

I notice you haven't put an ammonia result, you should get a liquid test for that and check it as well as the others. 25 ppm nitrAte is reasonable for any tank, nitrItes should always be 0 ( which it was in that test , but should always be at 0 ) Ammonia should always be 0 , and your PH is fine. You temp is indeed a bit high, does the tank have a heater? Or is it near a radiator or something?

The easiest way to get aeration and water surface movement in a round tank is to lower the water level a little ( so it isn't right at the absolute top where the surface area is miniscule and useless ) and add an airstone. I think a circular/ball shape one would be best for a round tank like yours ( you will need an airpump as well obviously ) . The water movement created by the bubbles breaking will disturb the surface and allow oxygen to mix with the water a lot better.


To be honest if you can't afford a new tank ( second hand is always an option, my 30 gal was £22 ) you can set up a bigger one for him using a big clear plastic storage bin. Wilkinsons sell big ones for £5 and you just set it up with a filter and some fake plants like any other normal tank. It won't look amazing, but he'll have more room, you can get a proper, easier to manage filter whose media won't need to be chucked away every few weeks, and better surface area.

 

[black angel]

you could always try making your own food for him

get a packet of gelatine and melt it in a pan add some tuna, some cooked rice, squashed peas and maybe some other squashed veg and mix together.
place into an ice cube tray and set in the freezer. when you want to feed just pop one out and defrost.

the beauty of this is you can make each batch differently, add fruit but not too much. try bloodworms to it or more veg. experiment.

and yes i agree with honeythorn. maybe get a small internal filter that you can keep running

 

[naomi181]

I am going to get a new tank once my student lone comes through. The clear seal tanks seem quite cheap or my friend suggested keeping them in a small paddling pool in my room. Has anyone heared of this working?

I have another goldfish in a 60l biorb as well so how many litres would i need for one black moor and one telescope eye? For now i will change the water as often as i can and i will buy an ammonia test kit.

I already have an airstone for the tank but will lower the water level. Another problem with this though is if i lower it too much the biorb bubble tube is above the water then i loose some of the airation i get from the bubbles. I think i'm gonna give up on biorbs.

I don't have a heater but i think the water gets warm because the hot water pipes run underneath my room and the biorb is positioned on the floor. Probably a stand would help.

I have nightmares about accidently killing these goldfish every night. Last night i dremt the tank smashes and i scooped up and put them in the nearest water and then it turns out the waters boiling, then i put them in tap water and they are gasping for air because of the chlorine then i'm moving in slow montion and can't find the dechlorinater! It was obviously playing on my conscience! Thanks for your help you've hopefully saved a black moor a lingering death.

 

[SharonCC]

Hi Naomi,,,it cetainly sounds like you are stressing over these fish, if your dreams are any indication. I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but you may need the student loan funds for other things...Be careful. If your dorm room is anything like my daughters was, there won't be room for a paddling pool. The storage bin sounds like a good idea, and cheap, until you can come across a really good deal on a second hand tank....Good luck at university!!!

 

[Honeythorn]

You have another goldfish in one as well

Urrgh. Get a big clear storage bin for each fish, a cheap cannister filter for each bin ( I'd say a Fluval 2 for each fish if you can ) , and some plants to hide in. You don't even need gravel to be honest, and it'll keep things a bit cleaner and easier.

Please try not to have any tanks or the storage bins on the floor. Just the vibrations from you walking about will disturb the fish a lot. If you have a sturdy desk , table or something else that can hold the weight, then do try to put any tanks or tubs on there rather than the floor.

If you want to keep both in the same tank when you can afford one , you'll need approximately 45 gallons, preferably 55. That's a tank about 4 foot long. The tank doesn't have to be brand new from a shop. There's nothing wrong with a good second hand tank, and many come with accessories and filters included. My 30 gal was second hand, it had no hood but it came with a fully operational Eheim 2215 external filter ( worth over £50 on it's own I'm told ) for £22 . If that isn't a bargain I don't know what is.

Look in your local papers and classifeds for tanks, if you find one just go and check it out, make sure it has no cracks and give it a good clean with hot water and salt if you buy one. You really will be doing the fish a favour by getting them out of those biorbs. Those things are such a scam.

 

[naomi181]

I'm gonna go get 2 storage bins on Thursday. My parents are gonna look after my fish at home so it doesn't matter about the set up being ugly or too big to fit in my dorm room plus if i get 2 cheap storage bins i can afford a good quality pump and filter.
Thanks again for your advice. These fish will have been through 3 tank upgrades now! (From 10 litre unfiltered bowl that the pet shop told me to put them in to 60 litres each to a nice roomy storage bin!)

 

[Honeythorn]

Great stuff. Don't forget to cut notches/holes out of the edges of the bin lid for any wires, and drill a few holes in the top of the lid itself to allow oxygen in to mingle with the water .

The tubs will need weekly water changes of about half the water. Goldfish are messy buggers.

 

[naomi181]

I tried the plastic box method on thursday but after filling it with 20 litres of water a crack apperead in the bottom spilling all the water all over my floor.
I saw a huge clear seal aquarium in pets at home for £55 so i bought a filter and air pump and started saving money for it. Unfortunately, while i was trying to get £50 that my dad owed me for drawing a map he needed for a leflet he lost his temper and ripped the map up and pushed me outside the house. He then went upstairs shouting 'where are these fish?' to kill my goldfish because he knows it was an aquarium that i was saving the money for and he thinks its a waste of money. I managed to push him out the way before he got them so he just grabbed my phone and smashed it. I am quite upset at the moment.
I can't beleive how much trouble 2 goldfish can cause really. I'm gonna put them in the pond outide because there is nothing else i can do.