Uninterruptable Physh System

[Dorsal]

We are entering storm season again here. A couple of nights ago, the power went off for 5 hours. After 5 hours the tank temp dropped to 26.5 (ok I think). When the power came on all the fish were sluggish, some were resting in plants (not moving. Withing 30 minutes of the filter starting again they were back to normal. I suspect it won't be the only time this will happen this summer.

That got me to thinking, why don't I put a computer UPS on my tank. A 345W one is quite inexpensive, and with our Fluval 404 (25W) should last at least 10 hours. I'd leave the heater off I think. What are peoples thoughts on this one??

 

[freshmike]

Battery powered air pump, or EXACTLY what you said. Great idea.

 

[Dorsal]

Well I went out and bought it. I'll let you all know how it goes.

It was only $120(aus) which is very cheap. The financial cost of the fish would far exceed that. Beyond that, since I've been keeping fish again I've got a real attachment to the little fellas. It's like a bond of trust. When they were all looking sick the other night the whole family was distressed. This is cheap insurance I couldn't bear to see them sitting suffocating again. I'm thinking I need a back up for the filter too.

 

[smithrc]

have you given it a go yet?

I'd have to unplug the filter - just to try it

 

[Dorsal]

have you given it a go yet?

I'd have to unplug the filter - just to try it

True to form, the whether now says no storms for the foreseeable future. I need to make up a plug to try it out. I'll give it a go tomorrow and let you know how it goes

 

[Lateral Line]

Shame, your weather link doesn't work. My weather today has been a temperature of around zero, a -12 windchill, persistent light to moderate rain, and 12mps wind. It gets light at about 9:00, and dark by 3:30, and the broad daylight when there is this much cloud is barely enough to read by.

I really need to move.

 

[Dorsal]

Shame, your weather link doesn't work. My weather today has been a temperature of around zero, a -12 windchill, persistent light to moderate rain, and 12mps wind. It gets light at about 9:00, and dark by 3:30, and the broad daylight when there is this much cloud is barely enough to read by.

I really need to move.

I don't understand why the link doesn't work. It works for me Anyway, here it is. These temps are degrees celcius BTW

BRISBANE METROPOLITAN AREA
Dry and hot. Moderate to fresh NW winds
Brisbane Maximum ... 34
Bayside Maximum ... 30

Sunday ... Fine. MIN 18 MAX 28
Monday ... Fine. MIN 19 MAX 29
Tuesday ... Fine. MIN 19 MAX 27

 

[Dorsal]

Well, I've got the thing installed. It's not going to plan however. The basic design of a UPS is that they have a 12V battery, and a inverter to step it up to 240 V which is what we have here. The problem is, that we have Alternating Current (AC) in Aus. The inverter tries to build a AC current, but (simply) it's not quite as good as the mains.

It appears that if the filter (brushless) doesn't luck into the perfect phase with the inverter the inverter doesn't see the demand for power and doesn't produce enough for the filter, and it splutters to a stop However, if you include a 40W light with it, all is well.

So, I'm going to try adding something called a ballan to trick the inverter into producing the current we need. I'll let you all know how I go. I'm doing that tonight.

I can't believe no one else has been here?? Surely someone else has experience with this??

 

[Lateral Line]

The weather link still doesn't work. If I go to the root URL it loads but takes an eternity. I liked Brisbane, nice place.

Do you need to use a chiller on the tank when it is that hot?

I'm suprised the UPS doesn't produce as clean a supply as the mains, most computer UPS's are designed not only to be uninteruptible, but also filters for transients and spikes. I'd expect the supply from one to be better then the mains.

 

[Dorsal]

The weather link still doesn't work. If I go to the root URL it loads but takes an eternity. I liked Brisbane, nice place.

Do you need to use a chiller on the tank when it is that hot?

I'm suprised the UPS doesn't produce as clean a supply as the mains, most computer UPS's are designed not only to be uninteruptible, but also filters for transients and spikes. I'd expect the supply from one to be better then the mains.

Firstly, the weather link... This is the top page, and This is the page for Queensland. Don't forget to look at the climate averages.

As to the UPS, it apears to be that the ac is not quite so good as mains. Funny thing is, the UPS will happily run my PC and 19" CRT monitor, but won't run a piddly fish pump I've wired up those other options and will try it in the morning (the boys get disturbed if I go poking around after their bed time)

 

[Lateral Line]

Is it that the pump by itself is insufficient load across the invertor to stabilise the output stage? I'm also wondering about the load being resistive or inductive. The pump motor probably has a high inductance - but then the transformers in the PC cmponents probably are somewhat inductive... hmmmm.

The top level URL loads eventually, the Queensland specific link times out. Ah well, at least you can look out of the window and see! It is -2 here right now, but sunny.

 

[Dorsal]

Is it that the pump by itself is insufficient load across the invertor to stabilise the output stage? I'm also wondering about the load being resistive or inductive. The pump motor probably has a high inductance - but then the transformers in the PC cmponents probably are somewhat inductive... hmmmm.

The top level URL loads eventually, the Queensland specific link times out. Ah well, at least you can look out of the window and see! It is -2 here right now, but sunny.

Well, this is the icing on the cake but I've just worked out that the other problem with this ups is that if there is not very much current being removed in battery mode, it shuts off after two minutes And a pump is not deemed sufficient This one is going back

I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Dorsal]

Well, I'm a beaten man. I have now tried a secon UPS, and it was worse than the first one.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to go for a 12V backup system. I'll easily rig something like that up I just have to accept that if the power goes off I may loose the backteria in the filter. I'll just have to hope that there is enough in the rest of the tank to stop it from un-cycling. Any comments on this?

 

[Lateral Line]

The amount of bacteria you have in your system as a whole is dependent upon the food supply. With a constant supply, your systemwide bacteria population will grow until food is the limiting factor then it stops. You don't get a large buffer of capacity. Losing 25% of your bacteria will be pretty much that, you'll loose 25%.

How much you will loose in your situation depends, of course, on your setup. It is unlikely you would loose all the filter bacteria unless your power was out for a really long time, maybe 12 hours or so. Also, nitrosomas bacteria are tougher then nitrobacter, so the spike is more likely to be nitrite then ammonia.

The live bacteria in the tank will divide and make up the shortfall, but this will take time, some spiking is pretty much inevitable.

I'm still really puzzled by your problem. Here, a computer UPS smooths the mains, filters transients and will run a PC for an hour or more before it shuts down. With the much lower load from a filter, I'd expect it to last all day.

There is a cheapy type thing that only runs for a few minutes, long enough to send a message to the system telling it to do a controlled shutdown rather then just a power crash. Connects to a serial port. These things are not called UPS's though, I forget the name.

Maybe a car battery and an inverter would suit?

 

[Dorsal]

The problem seems to be that the Fluval 404 I have is very fussy about the quality of the power. Most inverters don't give a true sine wave - but a aquare wave or hopefully a step wave, and this seems to be what is disturbing the filter.

It runs beautifully when the mains is on, but when mains cuts out and it goes to inverter power it often stops. As for starting off inverter power, the only way I can do it is by putting a lightbulb in the system and running it to smooth the wave form. When this is done it will usually start. You can then switch the light off and it would usually keep running (although the second ups wouldnt' run it at all in backup mode, light or not). Both UPS would hapily run my pc, so I guess pc's are much more tolerant.

So, as much as I'd love to be able to keep the filter running, I'm not going to spend several hundred dollars on a sine wave UPS. A sine wave inverter alone is nearly $400. The ups I bought was only $120.

I guess I'm also dissapointed with the fluval 404. I don't know why they've built it that way, but it's a PITA The $25 aqua one baby filter I had worked beautifully off the UPS.

So, I think what I'll end up doing is buying a 12V airpump and wiring something up around that. It should cost me less than $100.