Undergravel Vs. Hanging Filters

aquariagirl1976

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Hi! I have always had the type of filters that hang on the side of the tank (I am sure there is some fancy name for them, just dunno what it is.) I am about to receive a 35 gallon tank tomorrow with powerheads and an undergravel filter. I am a little apprehensive as I have not much experience with undergravel filters. Can anyone give advice on these?

Thanks!
 
Hi! I have always had the type of filters that hang on the side of the tank (I am sure there is some fancy name for them, just dunno what it is.) I am about to receive a 35 gallon tank tomorrow with powerheads and an undergravel filter. I am a little apprehensive as I have not much experience with undergravel filters. Can anyone give advice on these?

Thanks!

I actually prefer the undergravel filters as once they are established, there is very little you need to do to them and it's close to impossible to destroy the bacteria unless you take the whole thing down. It does need an air pump though. They are not as quick to clear the water when you first start the tank, but it's simple and very effective.

The powerhead filters are very easy to clean, more adaptable, definitely more ugly, but you don't need an air pump to run them. Cleaning is simple, but it's very easy to destroy the bacteria when you rinse them out, as you must use tank water to clean them, as tap water will kill the bacteria in the media. They create a strong current in the tank, which can be useful, and they can also beused in conjunction with air pumps to airate the tank. You still need to vacuum the gravel though, whichever filter you use.
 
UGFs - considered an out-dated technique now. In order of preference:

1) External
2) HOB
3) Internal
9) UGFs

Andy
 
Undergravel filters are one of the biggest filth collectors in aquatics. The only way to get them completely clean is to tear down the tank, which needs to be done yearly. They are decent bio filters, until they start to plug & channeling sets in. They are lacking in mechanical filtration, and the filth they collect is difficult to remove. After a year the area under the filter plates can only be described as a mud puddle. I haven't used them in many years.
 



What are these filters?



Hi! I have always had the type of filters that hang on the side of the tank (I am sure there is some fancy name for them, just dunno what it is.) I am about to receive a 35 gallon tank tomorrow with powerheads and an undergravel filter. I am a little apprehensive as I have not much experience with undergravel filters. Can anyone give advice on these?

Thanks!

UGFs are very easy to maintain. The water gets sucked in through the gravel and the bad stuff goes up the pipe thing caryed by the air bubbles.
 
Just for abbreviation reasons:

HOB - Hang on back
External - Either a sump or canister normally
UGF - Under ground filter
Internal - the whole filter sits in the water
 
I have to agree with Tolak, I recieved a second hand tank with undergravel filters and it was disgusting underneath those plates. I remember using undergravel filters back in the day (well it was probably about 10 years ago, but still) and they do work fairly well. I would definately rate hanging filters much higher though. They're reliable, cheap, and very easy to clean.. I have to disagree with timg though about them. It's not hard to keep the bacteria alive, just siphon a little water into a bucket and squish the sponge around a bit. Their is beneficial bacteria still on the substrate and decorations so it would be hard to kill all of that bacteria very quickly.
 
Undergravel filters are a relic from the times when people kept ichtyosaurs and had tanks hacked out of stone ;)

The main problem, and it's one heck of a problem in my eyes, is that you have to use gravel. IMO/IME, bottomdwellers should never be kept on gravel, and neither should fish that move/sift the substrate, burrow, or similar. Almost all fish come under those categories.

Secondly, there's the actual function of the filter. It's both mechanical and biological, and these functions get in each others way.

Also, they're pretty innefficient and pointless when you've got much, much better filtration available.

close to impossible to destroy the bacteria unless you take the whole thing down.

The same can be said of all filters, as long as you're careful. When I clean out the Fluval 4+ in my 4ft tank, which is every week, I rinse about half under a high pressure tap to thouroughly clean it, and the other half in old tank water. No spikes or whatever. IMO an UGF is just an excuse to be lazy. And a cheapskate ;)
 
Ok... so UGF's are old school, and they are the easy way out, but I have to disagree about the effectiveness of them. They are easy to maintain, as in no maintenance, but if you vacuum your gravel regularly, a good deal of the "mud" can be removed without disturbing the whole thing. They are also quiet an unobtrusive. A clear plastic tube with an airstone is easily hidden with a plant or other decor, unlike the hobs or internals, which are bulky and very obvious. To hide them away limits their effectiveness and can restrict the flow of water around them. The other option, external or sump carry a very high price tag in comparison.

Compare the cost:
UGF £10.00 + air pump £8.00 for a basic one
Fluval 2+ £30.00+
Ehiem External Filter £65.00 minimum
Sump ??? I've never had one, so you tell me!

Substrates:
true, UGF doesn't work with fine sand, period. But fine and medium gravel and even course sand can be used with UGF successfully. A mixture of course sand and gravel is no problem for bottom dwellers, it's what they find in the real world!

Maintenance:
UGF Vacuuming during water change occasional airstone replacement (Every three months or so, spend about 50p on a new one!)
Fluval 2+ Weekly rinse and replacement media as necessary. (This depends on how much work it has to do. See below)
Ehiem External Weekly? rinse and replacement when needed. (This depends on how much work it has to do. See below)
Sump Dunno

Efficiency is something that is totally dependant on the tank, what you put in, and all the other factors that we can or cannot control. If you overfeed your fish, as many beginners do, the HOB and Externals clog up very quickly, whereas UGF does not. A vacuum of the gravel and the problem is solved. Ever cleaned a HOB that has been subjected to overfeeding? YUCK! Not a pleasant job! Most HOBs have two filter media in them, so you can change one without disturbing the balance much.
Carbon: Can be added to all types of filters, including UGF, sorry, but it can, much to the annoyance of some!

When it comes down to it, it's up to the individual, as to what you want your tank to look like. If you are looking for a heavily planted tank, then a power filter or external filter or sump is far better, as there is less water surface disturbance and much stronger currents. If you want an ornamental tank, then UGF may well be the solution. A well stocked tank with good quality water is the main thing, however it is obtained.

One more point to mention:
Are UGF fading away because of shops making MUCH more money on the higher priced, higher maintenance options? Are we, the aquarists being conditioned to expect to pay a lot of money to support our hobby? Why? I have 8 tanks, 130 fish, air filtration and clean, healthy tanks. I would bet that my whole setup cost less than some of your fancy tanks with all your hi-tech and expensive equipment. £30.00 per filter, hehe, try £2.50 for an equivelent air box filter! Who's the mug?
 
P.S. Not intending to offend anyone, but I have been keeping fish on and off for more years than I care to remember, and like everything in this world, opinions change, technology advances, and just maybe, some of us get left behind!

BTW. I forgot to mention the best way to clean a UGF is with a wet/dry vac connected to the riser tube on a full tank of water. Cleans the whole thing out in seconds!

I believe that proof is in the results obtained, however you achieve them. Do you?
 
Undergravel plates, $13.49; http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl36...avelfilter30x12

Air pump, $11.99; http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl36...hisper40airpump

Gravel, $15.99; http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod...p;N=2004+113555

This will provide filtration for a 29 gallon tank, as will this, for $18.99; http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl36...ar50powerfilter

Do the math. Even if you exclude the substrate, the pump & plates cost more than the hob power filter. You have to have the substrate with ugf, you can run bare tanks with a hob power filter, or whatever you want for a substrate. It’s much easier for anyone, especially someone new to aquatics, to “eyeballâ€￾ when a hob filter is in need of maintenance. This is not so with ugf, the top layer of gravel looks clean, while you cannot see under those plates. You cannot be certain it is clean without doing a teardown. Don't even think of stocking any fish that like to move gravel, this will render ugf useless.

Unless you have run the various filters you will not have a fair comparison. I have, and hob beats ugf in most any setup I can think of. While you have 8 tanks I have twentysomething, and used to have ugf, and used to have hob, and for the most part now run air-powered box & sponge filters. The couple of tanks that are not part of my fishroom have hob, canister, or a combination of the two. As far as expenses, the cheapest is box & sponge filters with a centralized air system, in bare tanks decorated with fish. Build your own racks, sponge filters, tops, lights, and whatever else you can, and you have a cheap, low maintenance fishroom that pays for itself & before too long turns a profit.
 
I read somewhere (note I said read so please pick apart at will :lol: ) that underground filters are used for deep sea beds for saltwater tanks if there isn't enough sand airation. This might be one reason why they are still alive. Personally I love external filters.
 
Wow, I guess I started somewhat of a debate...an oops on my part!

Ok, so I have everyone's opinions, and am still lost. I have to be honest, I am real skeptical on using the UGF. I did have one on my very first set up of a tank years ago and it was a disaster. I would prefer a HOB one for sure I think, but don't have the funds at the moment so may have to use the UGF for now. Thanks everyone for your input!
 
Glad to help!

Thank you Tolak for pointing out the error in my figures. I was thinking of a display tank, rather than bare, as I have always had tanks for display purposes. I agree with the airbox filter, and use them all the time myself, so point taken.
 
Eheims (externals) you can get for £50 incl delivery...

Debates are good. Mass debates cause blindness though (or so my mum used to inform me).

Andy.
 

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