Two pandas with swim bladder issues

[Lcc86]

I was just sitting by my tank and noticed one of my panda cories seemed to be slowly floating towards the top of the tank. Watched him for a bit and while he could get to the bottom, he would start listing slowly to one side once he got there. I decided to catch him out, while I was watching I noticed another one who seemed to have a similar problem although not quite to the same extent.

I've caught them both and they're currently just in a jug that's resting inside the tank while I set up a hospital tank. While the problem isn't severe I'm worried that it's affecting two of them and could be some kind of contagious disease.

In the tank are 10 cories (5 julii or false julii, 5 pandas), approx 10/12 pygmy cories and four ADF's. No new additions to the tank. All the other cories seem fine so far.

Parameters - ammonia and nitrite 0, nitrate approx 10-15ppm. Last water change was on 13/01, next change is due so I'll get that done as well.

Any ideas for treatment?

 

[Colin_T]

they probably have air in their intestine which is causing them to float. See if they fart any bubbles and swim normally after that.

 

[Lcc86]

they probably have air in their intestine which is causing them to float. See if they fart any bubbles and swim normally after that.

@Colin_T I've checked them this morning and the one I was originally worried about is just lying on the substrate looking like it's possibly breathing heavily. He wasn't moving at all so I started to get some clove oil ready thinking that it may be kindest, but when I went to net him out he swam off. I'll monitor him for a couple of hours and then make a decision. He's not floating any more so I think there's something else going on.

The other one is much the same, very active but floating a little.

Edited to add - been watching the one I was going to euthanise for a bit and he's swimming around, still floating a lot.

 

[Lcc86]

Managed to get some pictures of him, he's missing part of one barbel and one of his fins doesn't seem to move, almost as if it is paralysed? I'm also not sure if I can see signs of something like ich? Or perhaps it's slime coat, I can't tell and none of the other fish have the same. His breathing is laboured and I don't know if he's suffering.

 

[GaryE]

He looks a little rough. The barbels seem to be gone, but I don't think he's past the point of no return.

What's the temperature?

If it's 2 fish, I would look to environmental causes, and to the food you're using. It could be a gut infection, since Cory armour hides all such things, but it could also be as simple as indigestion affecting the swim bladders. Watch, wait and water change.

 

[Colin_T]

The fish is covered in excess mucous and red around the gills. A big water change and gravel clean might help. Cleaning the filter might help too, especially if it hasn't been done in the last few weeks.

Maybe add some salt.

--------------------

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 2 weeks. If there's no improvement after a week, stop using salt and post more pictures and a video.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[Lcc86]

He looks a little rough. The barbels seem to be gone, but I don't think he's past the point of no return.

What's the temperature?

If it's 2 fish, I would look to environmental causes, and to the food you're using. It could be a gut infection, since Cory armour hides all such things, but it could also be as simple as indigestion affecting the swim bladders. Watch, wait and water change.

Yeah I thought he was a goner this morning but I may have been a bit premature, just hoping I can bring him back. I put them both back in the main tank as I felt they were too stressed in the QT, and also figured that if it's contagious the others will have it by now regardless. They both seem more active now. I've done a 65%(ish) water change this morning and will do another tomorrow. The parameters were still 0 for ammonia and nitrite before the water change. I haven't fed them as wasn't sure if they could be constipated.

They get a combo of catfish pellets, catfish flakes, algae wafers mainly, and the odd bit of either bloodworm or brine shrimp.

 

[Lcc86]

The fish is covered in excess mucous and red around the gills. A big water change and gravel clean might help. Cleaning the filter might help too, especially if it hasn't been done in the last few weeks.

Maybe add some salt.

--------------------

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 2 weeks. If there's no improvement after a week, stop using salt and post more pictures and a video.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

Thanks Colin, I will start with big daily water changes and see how we go. I'll order some salt as well as a backup.

 

[Lcc86]

I just noticed two different cories flashing... have never seen this before with them so am now thinking is it something like gill flukes?

 

[MaloK]

What kind of substrate you have and what is your nitrate reading ?

Are the fishes aiming for their gills or their body when they flash ?

Can you see tiny strings on the fishes...

like that...

 

[Lcc86]

What kind of substrate you have and what is your nitrate reading ?

Are the fishes aiming for their gills or their body when they flash ?

Can you see tiny strings on the fishes...

like that...
View attachment 335328View attachment 335329
View attachment 335330View attachment 335331

Substrate is plain aquarium sand. I thought I noticed some stringy bits on the main affected fish yesterday, it's hard to see for sure. Yes they do seem to be aiming for their gills. Nitrate is 10-15ppm.

I don't want to buy any medication without being sure what I'm treating, do the symptoms sound like gill flukes?

 

[MaloK]

Look for extended operculums or gills that are not moving.

You might have more than one thing going on at the moment.

 

[Lcc86]

Look for extended operculums or gills that are not moving.

You might have more than one thing going on at the moment.

That's what I was thinking aquarium lights are off for the evening now and I'm at work all day tomorrow so I won't have much opportunity to look at the fish unfortunately. Will do a big water change before I leave but that's all I can realistically do tomorrow.

In terms of extended operculum and lack of gill movement, what might that point to?

 

[MaloK]

Gill flukes, Body flukes, Flatworms.

They will be accompanied with a layer of mucus on the gills and body. Rapid gill movement, Skin and gills redness from irritation, And apparent chewed or eaten away gills and fins.

Pale fish with drooping fins, rapid respiration and/or hollow bellies indicate a more extensive infestation.

If it is the case of an outbreak, prompt treatment is critical.

 

[Lcc86]

Gill flukes, Body flukes, Flatworms.

They will be accompanied with a layer of mucus on the gills and body. Rapid gill movement, Skin and gills redness from irritation, And apparent chewed or eaten away gills and fins.

Pale fish with drooping fins, rapid respiration and/or hollow bellies indicate a more extensive infestation.

If it is the case of an outbreak, prompt treatment is critical.

The main one affected definitely has a drooping in and rapid respiration. I'll order some medication, hopefully this one will hang on until it arrives.