Tortoises!

[CAC]

Hi, at the end of july/early august im getting a baby spur-thigh tortoise
cant wait, their so cute!
they hached about a week ago, and they are about 1 inch long!
here are some pics:

Just comeing out of his shell


this guys comeing out front way...


But this ones comeing out backward


This is all of them


cant wait to go pick one up , one of them will be mine, if anyone has any name ideas, then please tell me what you think.
These are bred from a guy i know of near me, whos torts bred, i DO NOT indorse getting any tort from a pet store, as they are usually wild caught, and i dont agree with that!

Mikey 8)

 

[Bloo]

Ahhhh those photos are so cute !

Wild caught tortoises in the UK though ? I didn't think that was possible or even legal ?

 

[CAC]

Yeah, its not, SOME tortoises like mine have to have documents saying that its legally bred in the UK etc, but most of the tortoise species dont need the certificates, and so they are not tracked when they go through the systems etc...
they arent caught in the UK but are illegally brought in...

 

[Bloo]

Wow - if it's not legal, I honestly would have thought the applicable shops would be pretty quickly reported to the authorities and legal action taken. Of course illegal imports of all animals happen - but it's clearly illegal in the UK to sell tortoises without the licensing papers, so why would any shop take the chance to blatantly break the law

 

[Miss Wiggle]

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww how cute!

 

[Saedcantas]

Hiya Mikey, I think you may be somewhat confused with regards to the status of most tortoises in UK trade

You will rarely see wild caught (WC) tortoises in UK shops and if you do they will be obvious due to their price (considerably cheap) and their shells tend to be almost flawlessly smooth (In captivity you just cannot mimic natural diet closely enough all of the time to achieve that). If you do see a WC tortoise it will more than likely be a Horsfieldi, but in general there are many UK bred tortoises now available in shops not just directly from breeders and those that arent are more often than not Captive Farmed (CF) animals. CF and WC are two very different things. Then there is the issue of some tortoises require certificates (i.e: Hermann's do while Horsfield's dont) if you're buying a tortoise that requires a certificate, the information contained on it is fact and cannot be hidden.

they are not tracked when they go through the systems etc...
they arent caught in the UK but are illegally brought in...

This primarily applies to Horsfield's which do not require certificates once within the EU, the majority of CF Horsfield's are farmed in Slovenia and neighbouring countries, either way their import into the UK from within the EU. wether originally CB, CF or WC without any certification is completely legal. I assure you that the shop owner would have to be very very stupid to deal in illegal tortoises and they wouldnt be doing it for long.

The long and short of it is, if you know what you are talking about it would be perfectly possible to purchase a tortoise from a shop rather than a breeder and feel confident about the animal you have obtained because you will have known exactly what you were looking for rather than falling into the "All pet shops/lfs's are bad mmmkay!" trap

P.S: Out of interest I'd like to know what kind of tortoise breeder sells on his baby torts at 2-3 months old. I personally know of very very few people who would be willing to do this.

 

[CAC]

Hes not a tortoise breeder...
he keeps tortoises as a hobby but obvuously, some of them breed..
when his hermnns breed, he discards of the eggs, as he belives (as do i) that there are too many on the market and for sale..
the ones that are often wild caught are species like Horsfield tortoise,Leopard tortoise,Sulcata tortoise,Indian star tortoise and the Red footed tortoise..
these are often bred in their home countrys from wild caught animals or are wild caught themselves, then brought into this country, and are quite often sold at large sizes for their price, i.e a horsfield for £150 would normally be about 6-8cm whereas wild caught may be 11cm for th same price...
check out shelledwarriors.co.uk
ask sarah about it all, give her PM and shell tell you lol.

Mikey

 

[Saedcantas]

he keeps tortoises as a hobby but obvuously, some of them breed..
when his hermnns breed, he discards of the eggs, as he belives (as do i) that there are too many on the market and for sale..

I find that a truly bizarre thing to do. If it were a case of Hermans only ever being available as CB already, then maybe there would be ethical problems with adding even more quality CB stock to the market. That isnt the case though, a market flooded with CB animals reduces the market for CF imported animals, surely that is something to aim for? Also a fairly simple indicator of whether a market is flooded or not would be to observe the prices. Prices into triple figures doesnt suggest a surplus of animals to me?

often bred in their home countrys from wild caught animals or are wild caught themselves, then brought into this country, and are quite often sold at large sizes for their price.

You're still failing to distinguish between CF and WC animals. WC animals have a direct impact on wild populations and carry a pretty strong ethical problem for lots of people, whereas CF animals are often an important source of economic value to local people, are mass produced and have a minimal impact on the wild population. If the distinction between the two origins wasnt so important wholesalers and those in trade would not place such emphasis on knowing where their stock came from.


I do not mean to sound rude or argumentative at all Mikey, I just think you and your friend may be missing some of the subtler information about tortoises in the UK and their trade I dont believe for one second that I am a know it all or an expert, but I will say that I have been working with reptiles of all kinds in and out of trade for 7 years next month and I've been running my own forums and caresheets for nearly 2 years. I feel that it is an essential part of my job to know these things.
Lotte***

 

[CAC]

Ok thats fine, i value your points

Mikey