Tiger

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Doubt they’ve done studies like I mentioned. They probably should. Death is important. After they study what I’ve suggested they can classify happiness too

You 'doubt' based on what, exactly? Of course mortality is important, but that's just one measurable factor to consider. Since at least the 1980s, the concept of 'holistic' care has been in circulation, looking at each living thing as a complex set of parameters and componants. Many studies have already been done and, if I could be bothered, I'd do my own research to pull out the various scientific references. Of course,you'd then likely have to gain more than a degree-standard education in the subject to be able to understand the numbers which can be mind-numbingly dull.

 

[Jimmy74]

'People' also said that there may be a good reason to suggest that there's a possible sampling anomoly that gives a false impression that wild fish are bigger than their domestic counterparts. On this point, I would happily suggest that if we all looked after our fish properly, then not only would they live longer than their wild counterparts, but the better food may increase their sizes. Ask me the question again in 20 years.

Indeed, some studies are full of holes

 

[Jimmy74]

You 'doubt' based on what, exactly? Of course mortality is important, but that's just one measurable factor to consider. Since at least the 1980s, the concept of 'holistic' care has been in circulation, looking at each living thing as a complex set of parameters and componants. Many studies have already been done and, if I could be bothered, I'd do my own research to pull out the various scientific references. Of course,you'd then likely have to gain more than a degree-standard education in the subject to be able to understand the numbers which can be mind-numbingly dull.

Based on

You 'doubt' based on what, exactly? Of course mortality is important, but that's just one measurable factor to consider. Since at least the 1980s, the concept of 'holistic' care has been in circulation, looking at each living thing as a complex set of parameters and componants. Many studies have already been done and, if I could be bothered, I'd do my own research to pull out the various scientific references. Of course,you'd then likely have to gain more than a degree-standard education in the subject to be able to understand the numbers which can be mind-numbingly dull.

I’d like to see those numbers you speak of

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

People say on here fish are more stressed in the wild so 5 tigers in a 20H would be paradise no?

No...

Assume I put you in a lovely little palace, with as much food and drink and toys as you might like...but left totally alone.
Forever.
You'd soon go nuts...unless you were a complete happy hermit. Each of us has an optimum number of people we need to be around us. It's been found that many animals, including fish, are the same.

Some fish can be happy hermits, some can't. Five is better than one, or two...but NOT as good as ten.

 

[Jimmy74]

It's not just about the numbers of fish per tank inches...read the posts again and look at the comments about them needing to be in a shoal of a cetain size to be at their best.
Keeping less than 7 or better still, 10, in any tank is unkind. If ever you get to see a tank with a larger shoal of Tigers in it and watch for a while, I think you'll understand what we mean.

They probably act differently in even larger shoals in the wild. Or maybe not. So what’s that say?

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Based on

I’d like to see those numbers you speak of

So join a University and pursue a relevant education...or dig deeper into scientific articles relating to tropical freshwater fish behaviour. (I even seem to recall a section in this forum for sciencey stuff).

 

[Byron]

So 6 more inches in tank length and 10 more gallons of water is fine for 12 tigers but 5 in a 20 H is cruel? This doesn’t add up really unless keeping 5 in any size tank is animal cruelty.

Yes, it is cruelty. The shoal has to have 10+ (numbers are arbitrary and providing a minimum is always not the best, but...) and that means at least a 30g tank (30 inches/75cm length).

People say on here fish are more stressed in the wild so 5 tigers in a 20H would be paradise no?

The issue here is the stress that only having five fish and not ten causes the fish so affected. This particular cause of stress certainly would not occur in the wild as the fish have a shoal of dozens if not hundreds.

I thought captive bread are different than wild. Or so I’ve been told on here. People said on here captives usually never grow to the size of their wild counterparts. So are your theories on tank size and stocking numbers based on captives or wild?

The growth size of the fish does not even enter the discussion, we are talking about providing sufficient numbers of the species, and sufficient space for that number. This is a relevant issue for all shoaling fish [fish that as a species lives in groups and must be in groups in an aquarium]. And for the record, they are not my theories, they are proven facts after years of study of the species by those trained to carry it out.

Humans rely on specific individuals who have spent years studying medicine, dentistry, disease, etc, to provide help in these areas when it is needed. There are biologists and ichthyologists who have spent years studying fish physiology and metabolism. It is as foolish to ignore their findings as it would be to ignore the wisdom of your doctor, dentist, etc.

 

[Jimmy74]

No...

Assume I put you in a lovely little palace, with as much food and drink and toys as you might like...but left totally alone.
Forever.
You'd soon go nuts...unless you were a complete happy hermit. Each of us has an optimum number of people we need to be around us. It's been found that many animals, including fish, are the same.

Some fish can be happy hermits, some can't. Five is better than one, or two...but NOT as good as ten.

Five isn’t alone is it?

 

[Jimmy74]

Yes, it is cruelty. The shoal has to have 10+ (numbers are arbitrary and providing a minimum is always not the best, but...) and that means at least a 30g tank (30 inches/75cm length).



The issue here is the stress that only having five fish and not ten causes the fish so affected. This particular cause of stress certainly would not occur in the wild as the fish have a shoal of dozens if not hundreds.



The growth size of the fish does not even enter the discussion, we are talking about providing sufficient numbers of the species, and sufficient space for that number. This is a relevant issue for all shoaling fish [fish that as a species lives in groups and must be in groups in an aquarium]. And for the record, they are not my theories, they are proven facts after years of study of the species by those trained to carry it out.

Humans rely on specific individuals who have spent years studying medicine, dentistry, disease, etc, to provide help in these areas when it is needed. There are biologists and ichthyologists who have spent years studying fish physiology and metabolism. It is as foolish to ignore their findings as it would be to ignore the wisdom of your doctor, dentist, etc.

Can you supply these facts? I doubt it

 

[Slaphppy7]

Can you supply these facts? I doubt it

Your original question has been answered, more than thoroughly, IMO, by experienced, knowledgeable fishkeepers, who are just trying to help, free of charge.

At this point, it seems you are just trolling or trying to start an argument, which will not be tolerated.

Thread locked.