TIGER BARBS DYING--at my wit's end, please help!!!

[B. Atrice]

Hello all! I joined this forum in hopes I could find some help for my poor tank...

For the past several years, I have had a ten gallon tank with four tiger barbs and a striped raphael catfish. The tank's light recently quit, and since it was one of those all-in-one tank kits that don't allow you to replace the light, I got a new ten-gallon aquarium. Prior to the replacement, I had an algae bloom in my old tank, and I will admit it wasn't the cleanest of tanks...my gravel vacuum had quit and I was struggling to do a proper job with the siphon. Anyways, I set up my new tank day before yesterday. I got new gravel (rinsed it like crazy), but used my plants from my old tank (rinsed those off, too) and a log-like decor from Petco that my catfish was crazy about. I used tap water in my tank, but the water is perfectly safe for the tank--I had it checked recently and it's 100% fine. Slightly basic pH, but I've been using that water for years no issue.

I set up the new tank, and transferred the fish immediately since I discovered that the old one had started to leak...the fish seemed okay, but the catfish didn't hide like normal. The next morning everyone was alive, but a little later that day, the catfish died. My kitty cat, who loves to watch the fishtank and was so excited about me setting up the new tank, was devastated. She was literally staring at the dead catfish and meowing dismally. I checked the water, and it was fine, so I assumed that it was the combination of old age and the stress of the move that killed my catfish (he was probably around 7 years old). I wanted to make sure I had bottom feeders in my tank, so I went to Petco and got two albino corys. I also got three red-eyed tetras and a gold inca snail (there was still algae on my plants and decor). This may be overstocking a little, but I felt confident since my tank was well planted and I had good filtration.

The next morning (this morning) the tank was cloudy. I assumed this was a normal bacterial bloom due to the Seachem Prime and Stability I had dosed the tank with. But one of my barbs had died. Again, my barbs were older (4-6 years) and I chalked it up to stress and old age once again. But this afternoon, yet another barb died...again, old...but I'm not quite happy with the old age theory any more. I feel awful that my poor old fish are dying when all I wanted to do was to give them cleaner, safer conditions with proper lighting and no algae bloom. The new fish are absolutely fine, and the snail seems happy too. I tested my water...absolutely dead normal, with the slightest tinge of ammonia (not even 0.25 ppm).

Below is a rundown of my tank. An * indicates items/fish that were in the original tank.

Tank: 10 gallon
Fish: 4 barbs* (2 died); 1 raphael striped catfish* (died); 2 albino corys; 3 red-eyed tetras; 1 gold inca snail
Substrate: 5 lbs of white gravel mixed with 5 lbs of "snowy river stones" gravel, with glass accents on top (all well washed)
Plants: 4-5 small anubises*; 3-4 small Marimo moss balls*
Heater: set on 74 degrees
Filter: Tetra submerged filter, rated for 10 gallon, with charcoal filter and a biological filter sponge
Decor: large plastic log thing...* was in original tank no issue

Dosed tank with Seachem Prime, Stability, and pH buffer, as well as a dose of Flourish for the plants. Have used all those before with no issue.

Noticed bacterial bloom, really don't think that would hurt the fish...

All the new fish are fine. It's just my old guys that are dying. No clue what would harm my old guys and not the new ones.

(Testing with API Master)
pH: 7.4
ammonia: <0.25 (faintest twinge of green)
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0

There is no chlorine or anything in the tap water, besides...treated the water...and why is it only affecting the old guys??? I'm installing a bubbler tonight and we'll see what happens.

 

[Colin_T]

If you live in a city there will be chlorine or chloramine in the tap water.

someone else deal with this

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

I got it. Read basic cycling instructions on here. WAYYYYY too overstocked. Poor fish. Tiger Barbs need a large Aquarium, Raphaels need larger aquariums, Corys can live in that tank but at a minimum. Dose with API Aquarium Salt ASAP, or give back to the LFS. You need to get them to cycled water as soon as you can; now. I can predict what is going to happen: "Another fish died".

 

[Circus]

Did you transfer the old filter media to the new tank? This sounds like the symptoms of a cycle crash or an uncycled tank. Always perform water changes when you test ANY ammonia. How often did you perform water changes? If not very often the shock in water difference could very well have killed your older fish.

And I don't mean to pick with this, but there are several problems with the stocking. All of the fish you have in the tank right now need groups of 6 or more, and tiger barbs are unsuitable for a 10 gallon, in my opinion.

Corydoras need groups of 6, and sand is best for them. The tetra and barbs also need groups of 6, this species of tetra are better off in a 29 gallon and the barbs in a 50.

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

Completely agree. I got back a test of .25 ammonia in my 55 after letting someone feed my fish for a few days, and did 3 80% water changes in a 2-day period.

 

[B. Atrice]

Thanks guys. No, another one has not died (yet), but one more barb is showing a little distress. Question: my old tank had been dosed with aquarium salt and a salt based buffer, making the water perhaps slightly brackish, but I didn't even think to do that with the new tank (since I had originally been told to do that during a columnaris outbreak). Would the change from brackish to fresh cause just the fish from the old tank to go into distress? Since the new fish are showing no issues at all, I was wondering if that could be an issue.

Thanks also for the stocking advice. I've never had much guidance other than the people at Petco, and we all know what the LFS employees can be like. Had one tell me that my fish with columnaris had "just gotten the worse end of a fight." I've kept barbs all my life and never knew that they were too big for a ten gallon. But now I think I'll spend more time on websites like this and try to stock more wisely.

Any advice on a good, active, vibrant community for a ten gallon tank? I'd like to keep the corys if possible, they're so zippy and cute, but I'm open to swapping out the tetras for a smaller species. Also, would adding extra filtration or more plants ease the burden on my currently overstocked tank?

Tested again, still no sign of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrates.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Is your tap water chlorinated?
If so, what water conditioner do you use?

Good advice above, the TB's and the cat need a MUCH bigger tank than 10G...can you rehome/give them away?

 

[B. Atrice]

If you live in a city there will be chlorine or chloramine in the tap water.

I live in a rural area with surprisingly good well water. I still use a water conditioner before putting it in my fish tank.

I got it. Read basic cycling instructions on here. WAYYYYY too overstocked. Poor fish. Tiger Barbs need a large Aquarium, Raphaels need larger aquariums, Corys can live in that tank but at a minimum. Dose with API Aquarium Salt ASAP, or give back to the LFS. You need to get them to cycled water as soon as you can; now. I can predict what is going to happen: "Another fish died".

Heading over to cycling instructions now. Goodness, I wish the LFS people told new tank keepers more of this stuff...I've kept fish for 9 years and never heard of cycling. But obviously, it's crucial!!!

Did you transfer the old filter media to the new tank? This sounds like the symptoms of a cycle crash or an uncycled tank. Always perform water changes when you test ANY ammonia. How often did you perform water changes? If not very often the shock in water difference could very well have killed your older fish.

And I don't mean to pick with this, but there are several problems with the stocking. All of the fish you have in the tank right now need groups of 6 or more, and tiger barbs are unsuitable for a 10 gallon, in my opinion.

Corydoras need groups of 6, and sand is best for them. The tetra and barbs also need groups of 6, this species of tetra are better off in a 29 gallon and the barbs in a 50.

I transferred some of the old media, and the marimo moss balls (which were a little gunky from the algae bloom, but I thought they would be important to help out the new tank. I performed a 50% water change yesterday after detecting ammonia, and will perform another today just to ease any other issues that might be in the water but undetectable with the test.

I'm currently in the middle of a bacterial bloom...the water is pretty cloudy. Will this affect anything? Much of what I've been reading says it's natural and normal for a properly cycling tank to do that...

 

[B. Atrice]

Is your tap water chlorinated?
If so, what water conditioner do you use?

Good advice above, the TB's and the cat need a MUCH bigger tank than 10G...can you rehome/give them away?

I have well water that is unchlorinated, but I use Seachem Prime on it anyways.

I may rehome the TBs if any live, but the cat was the first one to die (tragically, he was the oldest tank inhabitant). I feel pretty terrible, even more so since I think most of this was due to ignorance on my part. Poor fish.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Well water can be VERY hard, do you know your readings for GH and KH?

At any rate, be sure to read the cycling threads here as others have suggested. I would start over with a fishless cycle (rehome any remaining fish), then stock the tank with fish that are appropriate for the tank size.

 

[B. Atrice]

Well water can be VERY hard, do you know your readings for GH and KH?

At any rate, be sure to read the cycling threads here as others have suggested. I would start over with a fishless cycle (rehome any remaining fish), then stock the tank with fish that are appropriate for the tank size.

We do have hard water, but it goes through a water softener and is normal when it comes out of the tap. If I can find the most recent test results from the lab, I'll let you know the GH and KH.

I dosed with aquarium salt, but it was too late for another one of the barbs. 3 down, one to go. I'm pretty sad.

I'm asking on another forum too, and I got a suggestion that it may be a kind of reverse old tank syndrome--that is, the old fish were used to the bad conditions of their old tank and the good conditions of their new tank were too much for them and affected them as much as bad water conditions would affect fish used to good conditions. Can anyone here affirm or deny that possibility? That would explain why the other fish are unaffected...

Water test:
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0 (possibly 0.25, but it really doesn't look green at all to me)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

 

[Slaphppy7]

How often did you perform water changes in the old tank?
How much water do you change?

 

[Essjay]

We do have hard water, but it goes through a water softener

What type of water softener? The salt type swaps the hardness minerals for sodium which not good for fish as fresh water fish have not evolved to cope with sodium in the water.
If you have this type, it is better to use the bypass tap and keep hard water fish.

 

[Byron]

There are two things that stand out here, on which I will comment.

First, do not use salt with freshwater fish. You have soft water species (tetras, barbs, catfish) and salt is harmful to them, plus it does no good anyway. It is OK to use aquarium salt to treat a specific disease when that is the best and safest cure, but never as some sort of "preventative," which many will advise. Your new fish that are still alive will be more likely to remain so without salt.

But that brings me to the water softener...many of these use common salt (sodium chloride) to replace the salts of calcium and magnesium (which make the water harder, the GH level). The subject fish would be better without "softened" water, so can you by-pass the softener and use well water? And what is the GH of the well water on its own? It may be OK for these fish.

The second issue I see is all these additives. Water continually enters a fish via osmosis through every cell, and substances in the water can enter the fish, getting into the bloodstream and internal organs. The fewer additives the better. This is important because this weakens a fish, making it more susceptible to other issues it would otherwise be able to fight off or deal with. [The salt also has much the same weakening effect long-term.] Specifically on the additives. Prime...this is not needed as you have no chlorine/chloramine. Stability...initially should not be a problem, and your tests indicate zero ammonia, nitrite, but this can be stopped at some point. pH buffer...these are not safe, but let's get the GH and pH of the well water on its own.

 

[B. Atrice]

Thanks very much for all your input and advice. At this point my one remaining barb seems to be doing okay.

How often did you perform water changes in the old tank?
How much water do you change?

I would do water changes around once a month, and usually around 25%.

What type of water softener? The salt type swaps the hardness minerals for sodium which not good for fish as fresh water fish have not evolved to cope with sodium in the water.
If you have this type, it is better to use the bypass tap and keep hard water fish.

It's a salt type, but the sodium reading in the water out of the tap is extremely low/barely detectable...? Don't know if that makes a difference. I was using distilled water until I realized that the pH of the distilled water was 5.5 to 6.0 and the fish didn't like it. The pH of my tap water is 7.6 to 7.8, so maybe a mix of the two would be better? I would bypass the softener, but would that affect the fish and plants? I have iron and manganese in my unsoftened water.