Thinking Of Going Saltwater

[timmystood]

I've mastered goldfish and now tropics so i'm considering thinking about going saltwater! It's a long way off because I haven't done any research or anything yet so am simply just wandering about what it's like - so i've been thinking and i've got a few questions.

1. What's the difference between Marine + Nano (is it that nano includes coral?)
2. How much harder, on a scale of 1 to 10 is it to keep marine fish? (0 being same as tropical 10 being near impossible)?
3. Is it better than tropical?
Cheers

 

[Tiggs]

nano just means small....so a nano tank may be only a few gallons.

imo its a very different hobby to freshwater fish. to run a proper reef tank takes a lot more money (A LOT), a lot more time and a lot more commitment- ebay is full of tanks that were prob bought by people thinking it was quite similar to freshwater.

yes- but thats like saying is a ferrari better than a ford, of course it is but is cost £100k and needs servicing every 3k miles.

 

[timmystood]

nano just means small....so a nano tank may be only a few gallons.

imo its a very different hobby to freshwater fish. to run a proper reef tank takes a lot more money (A LOT), a lot more time and a lot more commitment- ebay is full of tanks that were prob bought by people thinking it was quite similar to freshwater.

yes- but thats like saying is a ferrari better than a ford, of course it is but is cost £100k and needs servicing every 3k miles.

OK! Thanks!

Given me something to think about!

 

[andywg]

You've mastered goldies and tropicals? If you have mastered them maybe you should put your time into educating the rest of us.

On a related note, keeping marine is not too difficult, but it requires 5 provisions:

1) Lots of research

2) Money to spend, or the ability to spot a bargain in the second hand ads, or a good ability for DIY

3) More research

4) Patience to wait for the tank to be ready for livestock

5) Even more research

Have you spotted a theme there? the ability to research is essential in marine keeping, especially if you want to go reef. But if you do research the rewards are massive.

HTH

Andy

 

[timmystood]

Why are marine tanks so expensive to run? What are the biggest costs?

 

[steelhealr]

Live rock is expensive.
The fish can be expensive.
Skimmers are not cheap.
Corals are expensive.
Can't use tap water, so, that means constantly supplying a source of pure water and sea salt.
My FW uses a sponge and filter fiber....pennies. SW needs filter media.
Testing equipment, replacement bulbs. Lighting fixtures are costly...etc, etc, etc. SH

 

[Chac]

In a Freshwater setup your main cost will be your tank

Whereas as SH has said above there is a list of items (Mainly Live rock, Skimmer & Lighting) that will more likely be more expensive than the tank itself

Althought IMO the main reason most people stay away from Marine Fishkeeping is the amount of reasearch that MUST be done, initially it seems like a daunting task but with places like this where answer (not based on making a profit, like some LFS) are only a post away, (and newer technology's & a greater understanding of livestock needs) getting started with Marine is easier nowadays than ever in the past.

 

[J-Money]

you could ignore the corals all together and go with a FOWLR tank instead. you won't need the expensive lighting and there is a little more room for error. FOWLR means Fish Only With Live Rock. The most expensive things i've bought for my tank are the skimmer (hardly use now, 2 or 3x's a week), 2 canister filters i bought (at an LFS for more than double what they cost on the internet ) and Live Rock (LR). The LR is the most essential part of the filtration. in one of my canister filters i've taken out all the media so i just use it to add more flow to the tank. I've also been thinkin about doing it to the other canister as well. You are also going to want some powerheads, most people aim for a flow of 10x's the volume (120g tank generally needs a minimum of 1200 g/h turn around). Also, you will want to get the biggest tank you can afford/fit. With a bigger tank you won't have as drastic of fluctuations in your parameters.

As for is saltwater better than tropical...well you're in the saltwater section so our replies might be a little biased . I have my 45g freshwater tank in my bedroom because there is no room out inmy living room for it. I hardly ever pay attention to it now ( i feel horrible about it too), but i'm always looking in at what is going on in my saltwater tank.

just to reiterate what everyone has said/implied, research is very important. I did 3 months of research before i bought my tank, and another 1 or 2 before I actually purchased my LR and started cycling my tank...after all that i still don't think i did enough research. I ended up getting a "tall" tank and realized the fish i wanted (volitans) could get as wide (tip to tip) as my tank. that would seem to comfortable to me, so i ended up with what i have now. I also got a shrimp that I thought was a cleaner shrimp only to find out that it is predatory and has killed at least 1 of my fish so far and now can't feel comfortable getting a fish i've been hoping to get after my tank had been established for a year (green mandarin). Good luck in whatever you decide to do, just make sure you figure out what you want and what it needs

 

[steelhealr]

I sorta agree with Jmony. I love my 46G bowfront FW and watch it all the time too, but, as he suggests, it's on auto pilot. I virtually just have to feed the fish once a day and do a quick 10 minute 20-30 % water change. Some of my FW fish have been there now since inception and I'm quite fond of them. However, a marine tank is just so much better. Color is better....diversity is better...and, I hate to say this but the fish seem much more intelligent (I haven't owned a cichlid tank tho'). SH

 

[Donya]

I hate to say this but the fish seem much more intelligent

If you add up the number of guppies and sailfin mollies in the hobby and compare it to the number of oscars....yup the stupid fish win lol.

BTW random curiosity is killing me. Is there some obscure biological way around protein skimmers? I think I saw a setup once that was pretty big without a filter or skimmer...it was a while ago so I might have been looking in the wrong places but usually those things are pretty obvious when it's just a stock tank with no frills or attempts to conceal anything.

 

[timmystood]

OK - thanks everyone for all your replies. I'll have a think about if I should go marine or not!
Just a quick, probably stupid question though - what's a skimmer

 

[Chac]

OK - thanks everyone for all your replies. I'll have a think about if I should go marine or not!
Just a quick, probably stupid question though - what's a skimmer

A protein skimmer is mechanical way of riding your tank of waste substances that if left behind could be detrimental to the health of the tanks inhabitants. Skimming or “Foam Fraction” or “ Air Stripping” as it is sometimes called removes many substances at a primary stage before the biological of chemical filters have a chance.

The skimmer removes many compounds that cannot be tested for, but are however an important part of water quality. If these compounds are left in the aquarium they can build up too dangerously high levels. This will cause stress to the fish and organisms in the tank, which could lead to the outbreak of disease. Protein Skimmers remove the following:
• Proteins
• Amino acids
• Dyes
• Fatty acids
• Albumin compounds
• Carbohydrates
• Enzymes
• Detergents
• Copper ions
• Inorganic compounds


A protein skimmer is basically a tube in which an interface between water an air can be created. Having millions of tiny bubbles in a confined area of space does this. This interface then attracts the molecules, which are then removed. Substances that are attracted the tiny bubbles are called surfactants. The surfactants are attracted to the tiny bubbles because each of their molecules has a water-loving end (hydrophilic) and a water-hating (hydrophobic) end. The bubbles in the tube naturally rise to the surface; this brings the molecules with them. An oily scum is created at the surface of these bubbles. As the bubbles rise to the surface so does the oily residue. The bubbles & organic compounds create a foam at the surface. The foam slowly rises until it reaches the top and overflows into the collection cup. As the bubbles in the foam burst a dark brown or even yellow liquid is left. This can easily be disposed of. As a protein skimmer works on the principals of bubbles suspended in a tube it is obvious that, the bubbles that can be exposed to the water for longer periods of time the more effective the protein skimmer will be. If the skimmer is fitted correctly and is of the correct size for that tank up to 80% of all the protein matter in the water can be removed.

 

[timmystood]

Right! Thanks!

 

[davidcalgary29]

I don't think that marine tanks necessarily have to be more expensive than a freshwater setup if you keep your goals set at modest levels. I feel that "nano" tanks (<55g) are definitely the way to go for first marine attempts, for the following reasons:

1) most FW enthusiasts will have one or more spare tanks this size to start their first marine environment;

2) Nano tanks force owners to "think small": reduced biological load capacity force owners to stock marine tanks very lightly (e.g. 1-2 fish in a 29g). Fewer animals mean fewer potential mistakes.

3) Fewer animals mean less need for active mechanical filtration; it's entirely possible to base a nano filtration system solely on live rock and good aeration, and keep it happy (with some bulb improvement) with extant fluorescent lighting systems. If you can avoid the added cost of protein skimming, a RO/DI unit, and VHO/metal halide lighting, you'll find costs in line with FW tanks.

4) Finally, you'll end up with a great (cycled) quarantine tank when you finally decide to move up to the mini-reef setup of which you've always dreamed.

 

[steelhealr]

Hi..not meaning to be antagonistic, I think the post above is good. But, I just want to clarify some comments above:

2) Nano tanks force owners to "think small": reduced biological load capacity force owners to stock marine tanks very lightly (e.g. 1-2 fish in a 29g). Fewer animals mean fewer potential mistakes.

I don't really agree witht this comment. The volume of a nano tank may be small but all the potential problems and maintenance are BIG. Even among the best of us, there is a tendency to want to add more and overload. Also, in a nano reef tank without animals, there MAY be a little bit of cushion to make fewer mistakes. However, animals don't always cause the problem with nano tanks. Certainly rising nitrates can. However, many run into problems with pH/alkalinity/ dosing, cyanobacteria, valonia and hair algae. Corals and/or hitchhikers can die and nuke the tank. By any definition, a nano tank when mature and settled in may need minimal maintenance, but a crash is always a risk.

If you can avoid the added cost of protein skimming, a RO/DI unit, and VHO/metal halide lighting, you'll find costs in line with FW tanks.

You can avoid an RO/DI unit, but, you can't avoid RO water. You CAN avoid protein skimming with excellent water husbandry practice. You CAN avoid metal halides, but,if you want to keep SPS and/or clams, your lighting is NOT going to be cheap and it is NOT an area that most would recommend skimping on. I have a 46G FW and my nano tank has FAR EXCEEDED this tank in cost and blows away FW with regards to maintenance. Just an FYI.