Thinking Of Getting A Pair Of These Red Eye Blood Swords

[jollysue]

I am considering getting a beeding pair of these from CorysRUs.com.

What do you think of them?

They are US bred w/o hormones in the aquarium. They are a naturally occuring variation.

There are these too:

But as a Betta lover, I kinda like the first ones

 

[nmonks]

Each to their own I guess. But I think they're hideous.

For a start, can they see properly? I don't see how a fish with an unpigmented retina can see properly. (In fact I know they can't; most albino animals suffer from some loss of vision, including humans.) So why breed a fish that's half blind? Seems cruel to me.

There are also lots of lively truly-rare swordtails out there, like X. alvarezi and X. montezumae. Much more fun surely to keep something that has proper fins for swimming with, and proper eyes for seeing, and nice, natural colours to boot.

Oh, and they are absolutely NOT naturally occurring varieties of anything. Just look at them. They're advertising "eat me" to any pike livebearer that swims by!

Cheers, Neale

 

[jollysue]

I did not say they were naturally occuring in the wild, nmonks. I said they were a natural variation w/o hormones and aquarium bred. In other words I am saying that they are not hormone induced mutations, but aquarium bred from mutations that occurred naturally in the quarium.

I understand that there are some great differences in the approach to fish breeding, but I don't expect such vitriolic hyperbole when I post my interests. I tried to word this post to exclude getting yelled at, but clearly I was not clear enough in my post: This is not a thread started to continue a long standing hobbyist argument over purist arrogance!

I am considering getting into live bearers. I am asking for responses from people who are interested in this type of fish.

But I do suppose I posted this on the wrong board. It should be moved I guess to the Domesticated board.

 

[Butch]

I don't know about them but I heard they aint so hardy than sickly balloon mollies. They always suddenly die because they are so highly inbred than even fancy guppies. Plus you can't breed them very well and the female are PRE HIT so you don't know if they are pregnant. The males are sterile because of long fins just like other longfinned livebearers had this trait. If you want fry, don't bid them. Plus pike livebearer will have trouble swallowing them because the swordtails can be over 6 inch long...I won't bid on them because there's no proof about pregnant swordtails and you have to use normal swordtail to breed her but how you find normal male with same color? A mixed breed male swordtail at pet shop? Personally its too hard to take care and breed them. Plus you need LOTS of gallon to house these mammoth swordtails I would say 30 to 55 gal per pair...yikes!

 

[nmonks]

Sorry if my words offended you. But you did ask what I (we) thought of them!

Why am I against these fish? For a start, as mentioned, they almost certainly can't see properly (look at the red eyes: no melanin, therefore these fish are essentially albinos as far as the eyes are concerned, and will have poor/no eyesight). Breeding a fish that looks nice to us, but lives a life of sensory deprivation is something many people (including me) feel strongly about.

"Naturally occurring" (your words, not mine) means something very specific: the variety in question exists in the wild. The pink kissing gourami for example is a naturally occurring variety of a species that is normally green. Likewise, yellow gouramis are a natural variety of a fish that is typically brown.

What you meant is, I think, that these fish are a tank-bred variety as opposed to one created by genetic engineering or the use of colour-enhancing drugs/hormones. This may indeed be the case. They aren't naturally occurring though; these fish were created by careful breeding generation after generation.

Cheers, Neale

 

[jollysue]

A bit better, Neale. I won't continue a debate on the correctness of the first response to my thread or the overwrought struggle on husbandry views. But I did not ask what the philosophical responses are to the fish. Been there; Done that. I do get weary of having non enthusiasts assault me whenever I post pics of my long fins, though.

Thanks for the education on appropriate terminology. I have the same response to the use of terms like "man made" and "manufactured" as they are always used derisively and divisively

These things derail a thread and keep enthusiasts from being able to post and get appropriate replies.

Oops! I have discussed more than I meant to on this subject. But I will leave it.

I do know the source of the fish, who passed them to a breeder and is now selling the result of that. I will find out what I can.

Should this be on the other board? I have pm'd Anastasia.

I will most certainly look into your concerns, Butch! I have not had live bearers before. Frank/Coryologist/Guppyman has sent me some of his guppys, so I am starting.

 

[BlueBettaUSA]

I don't know about them but I heard they aint so hardy than sickly balloon mollies. They always suddenly die because they are so highly inbred than even fancy guppies. Plus you can't breed them very well and the female are PRE HIT so you don't know if they are pregnant. The males are sterile because of long fins just like other longfinned livebearers had this trait. If you want fry, don't bid them. Plus pike livebearer will have trouble swallowing them because the swordtails can be over 6 inch long...I won't bid on them because there's no proof about pregnant swordtails and you have to use normal swordtail to breed her but how you find normal male with same color? A mixed breed male swordtail at pet shop? Personally its too hard to take care and breed them. Plus you need LOTS of gallon to house these mammoth swordtails I would say 30 to 55 gal per pair...yikes!

I have "heard" a lot of things as well such as flying pigs or even sasquatch but I prefer to go on my own personal findings and not things I have "heard" ! What does one consider "highly inbred" ? The orginal guppy strain would then be "highly inbred" yet it continues to thrive today !

I'll let you in on some actual facts since they are fish I am quite familiar with:
1) They are not highly inbred and in fact were a naturally occurring genetic mutation that was very easily controlled and subsequently harnessed.

2) If the males are sterile someone should tell them because the are as fertile as the day is long and the nonsense about "The males are sterile because of long fins just like other longfinned livebearers had this trait" is one I've never heard albeit it's very amusing ! This also negates the other nonsense of "you have to use normal swordtail to breed her" !

3)A single pair could be housed in a 10 USG tank quite easily as they don't need "LOTS of gallons" and are not "mammoth" by any stretch of the imagination.

This is how rumors get started and spread from forum to forum. Someone heard from someone who heard from someone and so on and so forth. Would behove you to have all the facts before yelling "the sky is falling" !

Why am I against these fish? For a start, as mentioned, they almost certainly can't see properly (look at the red eyes: no melanin, therefore these fish are essentially albinos as far as the eyes are concerned, and will have poor/no eyesight). Breeding a fish that looks nice to us, but lives a life of sensory deprivation is something many people (including me) feel strongly about.

They are not "essentially" albinos but are in fact albinos ! Sort of like being a little pregant, you either are or aren't. They absolutely see although I haven't given them a vision test to see if it is 20/20 vision ! While your more then welcome to your opinion it's is one that I wouldn't say "many" people feel as strongly about as you may suggest. Have a look at albino reptiles, amphibians, dogs, cats, et al. No shortage of any of those to speak of. Thankfully, all animals with any "deprivation" learn how to adapt to their surroundings just like the blind or deaf humans do.

 

[Mikaila31]

I have kept two of the swords in the last picture. I have bought 6 but only two made it past two weeks, despite my best efforts. I got them from a good lfs, but they always came from the supplier sick. One lived 3 years before I lost her to a outbreak of velvet , she was my favorite fish. The other one I got a few months ago and is doing great. The pic you have up is of a young female, they look completely different when they are adults. The fish in the first two pics can breed, but the male lyertails will not be able to. They get very big as previously stated and they are slow eaters. They need a tank with a slow current and from my experience with them they tend to be sensitive fish. All in all, they are my favorite fish, even though I normally can't stand "man-made" fish.

young adult

Full grown adult

Short video of the full grown adult here

The fish will appear red or a rusty orange depending on the lighting you use.

cheers,
Mikaila31

 

[jollysue]

Thank you for replying, Mikaila31.

I don't think this particular line has made it to the lps yet. I will find out what the adult size is, for sure.

It took courage for you to respond and I appriciate it.

 

[BlueBettaUSA]

I have kept two of the swords in the last picture. I have bought 6 but only two made it past two weeks, despite my best efforts. I got them from a good lfs, but they always came from the supplier sick. One lived 3 years before I lost her to a outbreak of velvet , she was my favorite fish. The other one I got a few months ago and is doing great. The pic you have up is of a young female, they look completely different when they are adults. The fish in the first two pics can breed, but the male lyertails will not be able to. They get very big as previously stated and they are slow eaters. They need a tank with a slow current and from my experience with them they tend to be sensitive fish. All in all, they are my favorite fish, even though I normally can't stand "man-made" fish.
cheers,
Mikaila31

The fish in the last picture is of a female Hi-Fin Lyretail Sword which is a mate to the first photo which is of a male Hi-Fin Lyretail Sword. These are not the run of the mill Red Albino Lyretails you find at a LFS as these fish are quite expensive and are Red Eye Blood Red Hi-Fin Lyretail Swords & the second photo is of a male Red Eye Blood Red Super Sailfin Sword of which I am attaching a photo of a female.

 

[Butch]

BlueBettaUsa, just don't being so immature, you are dealing with pro fishkeepers...I'm not make it up. In fact I knew their sellers very well. They don't want anyone breed their albino blood swordtails. That's why you don't see them in pet shop very often. I'm not kidding about their size. You can't keep a pair in 10 gal tank because of its tail and its feel like cramped for two XL swordtails...the sellers had bad rep. because they ripped everyone out. The lyretail males are not able to breed with the females and the sellers won't give you a normal male for it. You have to get a male from pet shop then bred him with the blood females and you got fry full of random genes that's not good. Yeah they are so highly inbred that they have no immunes from diseases, and the meds don't help it at all. Since you are newbie, just dont twisting my words in these rumors anymore, these blood swordtails are not your average swordtails like you see them in local stores. My friend tried raising these strains and she don't have very much sucesses to keep them more longer than 3 months. Yeah they are pretty but wasting $100 on these fragile, worthless for breeding and I pefer american strains since they are much hardy than this strain (chinese strains).

 

[divisible by zero]

you're coming off just as immature

 

[jollysue]

Hi Butch

BlueBettaUSA is not a newbe by any means. You can believe me when I say that he knows his fish.

In this case he supplied the breeder with the original fish that were then developed as you see here.

These are not LPS fish. And if my supplier says that the fish he will send me are a healthy breeding pair, then I have no doubt that that is exactly what I will get. I have been doing business with this supplier for many years.

Also as I said before, these fish were developed and bred in the USA w/o hormones or other inducements such as are used in China and the Chech Republic.

I am still waiting to hear about the adult size.

 

[Butch]

you're coming off just as immature

Which one who's immature? Me or BlueBettaUsa? I don't mean to be negative but its true.

Super XL Blood swordtails can reached 5-7 inch long (males' swords) but full grown females also can reach 5-6 inch long too.

 

[jollysue]

The rub is in the XL. Who said these are XL? You have made an unwarranted assumption.