Thinking Of Converting Over To A Sw Tank

[tennis4you]

I have been considering starting a SW tank. I have a 125g and a 55g fresh water tank at home. I think the 55g would be the perfect tank to try out SW with.

I have to admit though, this seems very intimidating. And I think it is the equipment more than anything. I cannot tell if a sump is something that is necessary on a SW tank or not.

I have never used a protein skimmer, not even sure how it works.

I would love to do away with filters and have live rock in the tank, but I fear going to live rock too fast for a newbie might be bad.

I have been reading articles but just not sure if it is worth the risk, I am sure it would be if I could get it all down right.

I am OK with a low tech SW tank to start if there is such a thing. As long as the fish are healthy...

Thoughts? I am nervous yet excited about it...

 

[FlameHawk]

I have been considering starting a SW tank. I have a 125g and a 55g fresh water tank at home. I think the 55g would be the perfect tank to try out SW with.

I have to admit though, this seems very intimidating. And I think it is the equipment more than anything. I cannot tell if a sump is something that is necessary on a SW tank or not.

I have never used a protein skimmer, not even sure how it works.

I would love to do away with filters and have live rock in the tank, but I fear going to live rock too fast for a newbie might be bad.

I have been reading articles but just not sure if it is worth the risk, I am sure it would be if I could get it all down right.

I am OK with a low tech SW tank to start if there is such a thing. As long as the fish are healthy...

Thoughts? I am nervous yet excited about it...

If your'e interested in bigger fish like tangs[surgeonfish] then 55 gallons is pretty cruel, something to think about.
A sump isn't completely necessary, but is a good idea for growing different algaes for keeping parameters in check, and other things.
Every SW tank needs live rock. It's not difficult to have or anything, but do know whether it is in fact still "live" when you buy it. If not, there may be things on it that will die, rot away, and create nitrates, and perhaps other things so you get your live rock acclimated before you buy any other livestock. Also use powerheads to keep the water circulating around the LR, and keep it working as the great filter it is.
I am not too great at explaining technical stuff, but someone else on here can definitely help out. A LOT of reading is the best way to get informed, and you will probably never stop. A skimmer is necessary though, vital if you intend on keeping corals.
SW is way more fun than FW just read up.

 

[IIITYIII]

honestly i didnt read much of what you wrote im not going to lie but i did run across something about money or being fearful if you are scared go with the 29gallon biocube for starters thats what i did and i love it so i def am gonna upgrade to a 40 gallon breeder soon...id say start with a biocube make sure you like it so you dont take that much of a loss on cash. just a thought. and also the biocube already has everything you need youd have to buy a dinky little protein skimmer just get the one for the biocube though 40 bucks and if you dont like it atleast you can say you didnt lose a whole lot of money. because lights can be a bit pricy.

 

[andywg]

Every SW tank needs live rock.

This is completely incorrect.

The Berlin system (based on using Live Rock as the main filtration method and keeping low stocking rates) works well for reefs, but is a poor system when keeping messy SW preds, especially those that need an empty sandy bottom (such as flying gurnards, rays, many sharks and walking batfish to name but a few). It is more than possible to keep a tank without Live Rock (they are usually called Fish Only systems).

 

[Musho3210]

there are parts of the tropical ocean that doesnt contain live rock, and some of the fish we get comes from there, so not all saltwater tanks need live rock.

Skimmers, as much as i recommend them in any size tank, are not vital. With soft corals and LPS tanks, skimmers can be bad since it makes the water too clean for them. In fact, a skimmer would be better for FO tank since those are normally stocked higher. Fish produce a lot more waste than corals.

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

With soft corals and LPS tanks, skimmers can be bad since it makes the water too clean for them.

Where did you get that information??? I've heard it said about xenia but I don't believe it. My tank is full of softies and LPS and my skimmer is rated for a tank 3 or 4 times bigger , my water is perfectly clean , my corals are in the best of health and grow like mad. All that crap the skimmer removes would otherwise be in my system as nitrates and that surely wouldn't be good.

 

[Musho3210]

LPS and softies, normally at least, come from dirtier water in the ocean (deeper areas, with less flow and oxygenation, and a higher fish load, as well as tide pools). Yes they can do great in a heavily skimmed, extremely clean tank, but it doesnt mean they are doing their best.

Anyway, skimmer ratings are bunk most of the time, so although your skimmer is 3 or 4 times overrated, it probably wont do well if you actually put it in a system 3 or 4 times bigger than yours.

Try running your system for a few months without the skimmer, im sure it will do just as good, if not better.

I have run my mixed reef without a skimmer for a period, my fiji yellow leather grew faster than before, my torch coral actually started growing (it was stunted for a few months after my tank crash, but this could have been because i fed it, and may have nothing to do with the skimmer) and my xenia and clove polyps became what they usually become, weeds. Unfortunately, my sps were doing pretty bad after a while so i turned back the skimmer on. All corals are still great, sps, lps, softies etc. But i dont feel like the lps and softies are at their full potential.

I still love skimmers though, for any size tank, and for any tank type. Mainly because they are great fail stoppers.


EDIT: I withdraw my post on skimmers removing plankton, i was incorrect on that part.

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

LPS and softies, normally at least, come from dirtier water in the ocean (deeper areas, with less flow and oxygenation, and a higher fish load, as well as tide pools). Yes they can do great in a heavily skimmed, extremely clean tank, but it doesnt mean they are doing their best.

OK,but theres no way the ocean would have anything like the levels of muck that would be in a tank after a couple of weeks of no skimming,the nitrates would skyrocket, although you could do big regular water changes to get rid of that but thats unecessary hassle and expense.

Anyway, skimmer ratings are bunk most of the time, so although your skimmer is 3 or 4 times overrated, it probably wont do well if you actually put it in a system 3 or 4 times bigger than yours.

Mines a deltec mce600 it will skim a much bigger tank than mine, I bought it to be upgradeproof,so it really is skimming my 45g tank to the max.

I have run my mixed reef without a skimmer for a period

How long was that period? and what happenend to your nitrates etc?

Sorry about doing the annoying chopping up and quoting thing on your post musho

 

[andywg]

OK,but theres no way the ocean would have anything like the levels of muck that would be in a tank after a couple of weeks of no skimming,the nitrates would skyrocket, although you could do big regular water changes to get rid of that but thats unecessary hassle and expense.

Not necessarily. A skimmer does not get rid of nitrates, only hydrophilic dissolved organic compounds. Now, the contact time for some of these compounds is the two minute mark. Most skimmers on the market do not allow a two minute contact time so the skimmer is already missing some DOCs.

Further to the above is the fact that a large number of beneficial things are removed from skimming (such as phytoplankton) which some corals feed, so by skimming you are making it worse.

Many people now advocate shorter periods of skimming (say for 12 hours starting at least 10 hours after feeding the corals) rather than constant skimming to prevent potential overskimming removing nutrients which the corals want. It is perfectly safe to say that there is no consensus on whether skimmers are the most desired of kit in reef tanks.

However, the above counts only for reefs. FOWLR or FO tanks do best with the biggest skimmer you can find as these are usually stocked heavier with waste producing fish.

Anyway, skimmer ratings are bunk most of the time, so although your skimmer is 3 or 4 times overrated, it probably wont do well if you actually put it in a system 3 or 4 times bigger than yours.

Mines a deltec mce600 it will skim a much bigger tank than mine, I bought it to be upgradeproof,so it really is skimming my 45g tank to the max.

The ratings are are still very iffy. Even Tunze (whose skimmers at the smaller end equal those of Deltec) say to start knocking percentages off of their ratings depending on the stock. SPS or very heavy stocked tanks should be 60% of the rated tank size according to them IIRC. FOWLR pred advice is to always have a skimmer rated at least 2-3 times larger than your system.

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

Fair enough andy but surely much of that crap in the skimmer cup would otherwise get broken down into nitrates and is therefore better to be removed?(reducing water change amount/frequency as I suggested) and food for coral is replaced manually with the skimmer off for a couple of hours.
As for the skimmer itself mine is rated for 700l with normal stocking and 450l with heavy stocking (my stocking is low with only a few small fish) so as I said its really(should be) skimming my water well.

What do you mean by two minute contact time, do you mean contact with an individual bubble or in the foam in general?(or something else completely)

 

[andywg]

Fair enough andy but surely much of that crap in the skimmer cup would otherwise get broken down into nitrates and is therefore better to be removed?(reducing water change amount/frequency as I suggested) and food for coral is replaced manually with the skimmer off for a couple of hours.
As for the skimmer itself mine is rated for 700l with normal stocking and 450l with heavy stocking (my stocking is low with only a few small fish) so as I said its really(should be) skimming my water well.

Indeed, but during the whole time the skimmer is on it could be depriving the corals of what they want. The simple fact is that there is no right way to do a reef and many people have very successful tanks without skimmers. I seem to recall that the mineral/magic mud system of providing a ubstrate with nutrients for algae growth worked better without a skimmer as the skimmer removed all the nutrients which helped the algae grow.

Have a skimmer or not, the choice is yours (I personally do, but my tanks are FOWLR now). I just recommend that you read up and understand why and how the system you choose can work. If you decide you prefer a skimmer, go for it, but be prepared to have some people point reasons why it is not ideal.

What do you mean by two minute contact time, do you mean contact with an individual bubble or in the foam in general?(or something else completely)

I mean that some DOCs have to be in contact with the same bubble for 2 minutes before they will fully associate with the bubble and thus leave the water viea the skimmer collection cup. It is for this reason that recirculation skimmers are better than most, and that an ideal skimmer is at least 6 feet tall: added contact time with a higher amount of air.

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

Indeed, but during the whole time the skimmer is on it could be depriving the corals of what they want. The simple fact is that there is no right way to do a reef and many people have very successful tanks without skimmers.

I never suggested otherwise. I just had issue with an earlier statement "With soft coral and LPS tanks skimmers can be bad as they make the water too clean for them" which suggested soft/LPS liked dirty water and a skimmer would/could be detrimental to soft/LPS corals health.

I seem to recall that the mineral/magic mud system of providing a ubstrate with nutrients for algae growth worked better without a skimmer as the skimmer removed all the nutrients which helped the algae grow.

I've read a bit about this and it would be good to hear of someones experience with it(more natural systems do have a certain appeal)

I mean that some DOCs have to be in contact with the same bubble for 2 minutes before they will fully associate with the bubble and thus leave the water viea the skimmer collection cup. It is for this reason that recirculation skimmers are better than most, and that an ideal skimmer is at least 6 feet tall: added contact time with a higher amount of air.

Ah I see

 

[Musho3210]

The period was for 6 weeks, nitrates stayed the same, i have a good amount of algae growing that isnt visually displeasing, the algae is there, skimming or not.

Pod life stayed the same.

 

[johnnyjtaylor]

Thats interesting, did the algea grow alot more in those 6 weeks? Where you running a sump/fuge with lots of macro algea? Did you do more frequent large water changes? Where do you think the organic waste went? Surely if adding organics(food) it must have a way to leave the tank or it would quickly build up.

 

[kj23502]

Tennis I really suggest this book:

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist By Robert Fenner. See if your local library has it or can do an interlibrary loan for you. I'm reading it now and it's excellent w/a lot of good info for beginners such as us. I wrote a tid bit on it in my journal for my 120 gallon sw tank below...i beleive it's on page 2 of it. Check out my review and the topics it covers

There's alot to learn, but I believe that things will come second nature as we start doing them(such as mixing salt and using a refractometer, aclimatizing fish, etc).