Think I'm Losing a Panda

[Byron]

I dose pretty heavily (3ml) with water conditioner during my 20 to 30% daily water changes (1ml per 2 gallons is recommended and I usually remove and add 4 to 5 ga). Cory from Aquarium Co-Op mentioned that one would need to dose 9 times the recommended dose before reaching toxic levels (I would never approach that amount). Anyway, does water conditioner accumulate in the water over time, or is it neutralized or gas off?

That is a good question. It obviously does not remain effective, or we would not need to use it at every water change. And Seachem do state that the detoxification of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate by Prime is temporary, about 24-36 hours after which these three if still present revert back to the toxic form, so this is some sort of binding that is not permanent.

Using more than absolutely necessary is however harmful to fish.

First, like any additive, conditioner increases the TDS (total dissolved solids) and as these increase, the fish are negatively impacted (soft water fish more than harder water species). The TDS remain until we remove them via the next water change.

Second, like all additives, conditioner is pulled inside the fish via osmosis through every cell, and at the gills. It enters the bloodstream and is carried to the internal organs. Manufacturers saying this is not harmful is not being sensible; if harmful means the fish do not die within seconds, fine, but I have a much broader interpretation of "harmful." We need to use conditioner, but it should not be used at a level beyond what is essential. This is one of the main reasons I use and only recommend API's Tap Water Conditioner; it is the most concentrated product (1 drop per gallon, 1 ml treats 20 gallons) so less is used and therefore less gets inside the fish. It also contains no unnecessary additives to cause more trouble.

 

[PCat]

Aquarium River Sand is #1 because it is exactly what these fish have in their habitats. Going beyond that, any similar rounded-grain sand is OK. Look at the grains with a magnifying glass, and if they are not angular they are probably suited to the fish. I happen to use Quikrete Play Sand, in a dark grey mix. They also make a buff (more "natural appearing" sand) tone. I know from my communications with Quikrete about their processing that this is the most refined sand. Not all brands of play sand are, so I am not suggesting play sand generically.

White is always to be avoided, it does negatively impact the fish (not just cories). Black interestingly is also not advisable for the same reason. A non-white tone should be fine.

All construction/industrial sands are not suitable, as one can see when looking at the grains with a magnifying glass. They are rough, angular...however you want to describe them.

Sand is crucial to these fish. As they filter feed, they expel mucvh of the sand through the gill slits, but they also swallow/digest some of the sand. Corydoras do not have teeth so they cannot chew up food. They masticate it as best they can, then they swallow it, sand and all. Rough sand can cause serious problems.

Great information! Makes me wonder if the sand aids digestion and plays a role in gill health.

 

[PCat]

That is a good question. It obviously does not remain effective, or we would not need to use it at every water change. And Seachem do state that the detoxification of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate by Prime is temporary, about 24-36 hours after which these three if still present revert back to the toxic form, so this is some sort of binding that is not permanent.

Using more than absolutely necessary is however harmful to fish.

First, like any additive, conditioner increases the TDS (total dissolved solids) and as these increase, the fish are negatively impacted (soft water fish more than harder water species). The TDS remain until we remove them via the next water change.

Second, like all additives, conditioner is pulled inside the fish via osmosis through every cell, and at the gills. It enters the bloodstream and is carried to the internal organs. Manufacturers saying this is not harmful is not being sensible; if harmful means the fish do not die within seconds, fine, but I have a much broader interpretation of "harmful." We need to use conditioner, but it should not be used at a level beyond what is essential. This is one of the main reasons I use and only recommend API's Tap Water Conditioner; it is the most concentrated product (1 drop per gallon, 1 ml treats 20 gallons) so less is used and therefore less gets inside the fish. It also contains no unnecessary additives to cause more trouble.

Again, great info!

 

[Aussie_Bristle]

I’m my tank with my cories I use riversand. It’s fine and safe for them to filter through their gills as they sift. I’m not big on gravel and I cringe every time at the sight of seeing cories in a rock substrate tank bottom as it’s to rough for their barbs and to dangerous for them when they are trying to have a good sift but this is MO. Byron is absolutely right and advice from him can either be taken or ignored.

 

[PCat]

Little white worms on the glass. They have to be flatworms. Are gill flukes round worms?

 

[JuiceBox52]

Little white worms on the glass. They have to be flatworms. Are gill flukes round worms?

Do you have a picture?

 

[PCat]

Too small to photograph. Just small, thin white worms about a 16" of an inch long. Planaria maybe? I have noticed two of the pandas flashing against the gravel and rocks occasionally the past few days.

 

[CassCats]

Noting your parameters...

0.25 ammonia and 0 for the rest...

Is your tank fully cycled? I ask this as 0 nitrates is suspicious of an uncycled tank, unless you heavily heavily plant and use chemical means to reduce nitrates to nothing (Nitrazorb, etc).

Cories are pretty sensitive to uncycled tanks, and ammonia can irritate their skin which would cause flashing.

Add in yours are pandas, which aren't as hardy anymore due to weaker genetics, so theyre more prone to problems.

I wont go more on the substrate, Byron has that down pact for you very well.

 

[PCat]

If I'm reading my API master test kit correctly. The tank is only 6 weeks old so not fully cycled.

 

[CassCats]

Ahh, that may be your cause. Possibly a weaker individual showing problems sooner. Keep up on the water changes like you are itll be tough to cycle with cories, there may be some losses, but keep up on it

 

[Byron]

Floating plants if you can get some will be a tremendous benefit here, they will eliminate any "cycling" related problems. And that may be the issue. Corydoras are very sensitive to any ammonia. But before jumping into another chemical, do they add chloramine to your water?

On the white whatever, planaria are harmless. Gill flukes would not be seen on the glass, so far as I know (had this once on some wild caught cories).

Flashing could be due to so many things, from ammonia to flukes to something in the water to ich to velvet to... . Ich is what I would most suspect, as the cories are new additions (within the six weeks) and ich will readily come in with new fish. If they are kept free of stress, they usually deal with it. Flashing is the only external sign, caused by the ich attacking fish first in the gills; external spots may never appear (unless it worsens).

The above is general. Resist the urge to "do something" in the way of adding "x" or "y" as this inevitably makes it worse. Corydoras do not like any chemicals or medications, and the stress of using these even if they were a likely "treatment" can negate any benefit.

Floating plants really are the best thing here. And plan to change out the substrate to soft sand, that is another stressor you can deal with so one less problem.

 

[PCat]

So the little guy is completely back to normal today and eating! Not sure what was wrong with him. I'm not sure about the chloramine either. Does water conditioner remove it?

Don't know where I would get floating plants. Any online sources and plant suggestions?

I did order some river sand last night.

So far I haven't lost any pandas yet during the cycling. I credit the daily water changes.

 

[Byron]

So the little guy is completely back to normal today and eating! Not sure what was wrong with him. I'm not sure about the chloramine either. Does water conditioner remove it?

Don't know where I would get floating plants. Any online sources and plant suggestions?

I did order some river sand last night.

So far I haven't lost any pandas yet during the cycling. I credit the daily water changes.

Fish do get injured by netting/transport. And Corydoras do not like moving tanks, not that any fish really do, but there are some that it does really affect negatively and the Corydoradinae species are in this group. Loaches is another group that comes to mind. They can spend days, even weeks, charging up and down the glass after being moved.

Conditioners detoxify chloramine, but I asked because those with chloramine added to their water frequently see ammonia at very low levels, so that would explain it. Check with your water authority, on their website...they must tell you what is added to the water.

I don't know online sources, but in the USA you shold find some reliable ones. Other members may be able to help here.

 

[PCat]

I don't have floating plants, but I have these. The philodendron are really starting to take off throwing down lots of long roots and putting up shoots. The three Hydra Lotus Lucky Bamboo are huge and rooting like crazy. Hopefully they are improving water quality while the tank cycles.