The world from another view...

[Little_Orca]

Over a year ago, my boyfriend and I picked out two orandas. They were all of 1.5 inches long and shy. He picked out a little orange one with a tubby body and I picked out a slimmer, but still chubby, white and gold oranda. The gold one was named Mitshu (Honey) and the white one was named Shinju (Pearl).

As they grew up, they lived in a tank that was too small for them. It was all of 2 gallons, but somehow they still thrived. They found great pleasure in watching me as I watched them or did homework near them. They moved with me to Oregon State University and lived in that tiny tank for only a little while longer before they were given the largest tank I could get within OSU rules: 10 gallons. During they year, they gained two more tank mates: A black moor named Ningyo and a feeder named Sakura. (I know tank size should be 10 gal per fish of this type, and as soon as I get out of college for sure I will get a larger tank. The feeder has been moved to another tank, so some of the crowding has been eliviated, but I know they are hardy. I have had a goldfish [in my nieve years] I kept in a 2.5 gal tank and she lived for 6 years]).

As Mitshu grew, I noticed a little habit of his. He would float belly up on the surface of the water, but he was not dead. I could see him breathing and when I got too close, he would turn over and swim around like normal. I laughed it off at first, then began to look and see if this was a sign of a problem within him. I read everything from him being fed too much (which I didn't think I was doing, having owned goldfish before) and a genetic swim-bladder disorder.

He has very recently given up his floating for laying up-side-down on his head at the bottom of the tank. He is still a live and does all the things normal fish do: eat, swim, breath, get chased, chase, etc. except that he sees the world from a different view.

Does anyone else out there have fish who do this? And/or know of what causes it for sure? Aforesaid, I've heard things ranging from over feeding to swim-bladder disorder. Is there anything to do for Mitshu or is he just a "fish of a differnet color," so to speak.

 

[abstract]

i remember seeing a video someone posted here a couple months ago with a goldfish that floated around like that and would go into the bubbles and float to the top...and the other goldies would nuge him and stuff so that he didnt' get stuck...i'll see if i can't dig it up

EDIT: unfortunately i couldn't find it...but maybe someone has it bookmarked or something...it had some funny kind of music playing in the background if that helps anyone remember it..but it was so cute

 

[black angel]

Hi
Swim bladder disorders have many reasons as to why they come about. The most commonest is down to feeding.
What are you feeding your fish on? Dry flake food is a known trigger for causing fish to flip over. I would say to see if its a food thing, not to feed him for 2 days and then to feed boiled, skinned, squashed frozen peas for 3 days to see if that makes any difference. Soaking flaked food for two minutes prior to feeding or holding it under water will help. Changing to sinking pellets will help as well and feeding cooked white rice.
A variety of foods is also needed to help the digestion.
What does the fishes poo look like? Normal is short, thick and dark or whatever colour of food being fed. A goldie with swimbladder usually has thinner poo with air bubbles in it.
Another cause can be eggs. If a fish is egg bound this too can cause floatiness and the poo in this instance will be zig zagged and clear.
High nitrates in the water can also cause a fish to lose control so getting that checked would help too.
Theres more serious problems that can arise too, such as a deformed swimbladder as the fish grows which is probably hereditary or even a tumour that as it grows presses more and more on the bladder so not letting it either fill or empty properly of air.
If all else fails then a trip to vet who could x ray the bladder may be able to pinpoint a problem. But, it always comes down to cost in the end.
To help relieve the fish you could try placing him in his own tank if you can with just 6 inches of water to take the pressure off.
You obviously love your fish very much as it comes over in your post and i hope you find the cause of your fishes problem.

 

[Little_Orca]

Ug, I had added a reply yesterday before my computer went nuts, and it didn't go through, so here i go again.

I am feeding my fish a varied diet that includes the Tetraflakes, bloodworms, brine shrimp, and occasionally I give them broccoli. They haven't had that since I moved home from college for hte summer, but let me tell you... they love the stuff. They attack it like little sharks and rip chunks off... Its so funny to watch. I have heard about soaking hte food and I did that for a time but it seemed to have no effect on him. I also have tried peas, but at that time he was in a tank with the other fish and they eat faster then he does... that is why I call them all "Little Pig-Fish"

My fish's fecal matter varies a bit from fish to fish. Saukura is little bits, and the others generally have long trains of feces colored a salmon color. I have also seen some fecal matter in the tank that is covered in a clear mucus when it comes out of the fish. Mitshu is a mix between the long and stringy and the mucus. I think I have only seen the mucus from him once. Muscus mostly comes from my black moor, Ningyo.... Man, I spend too much time looking at fish crap.

I don't think I have to worry too much about eggs with Mitshu, since he is a boy-fish, but the info is still appriciated.

I currently have Mitshu in my 2.5 gallon hospital tank so I can see him better and all the plants aren't in the way. Shinju, the female he has lived with his whole life (including in the pet store), swims to the farthest corner of her tank and peers through the glass at him. Aww, fish wub. He is in that tank with about 6 inches of water and some peas. I've not fed him today (save for those peas) as you said. There are no drastic improvements yet. He does look like he is able to keep himself up on his stomach instead of laying on his side, and he has laid on his back, but then that is normal for him.

I have also noticed something along his gill plate. There are this translucent fringes sticking out. He appears to be breathing fine and is not gasping for breath, but he is my first Oranda and I just want to make sure he is okay. There is an illustration below: Figure 1.

I was watcing him last night and I felt bad that he was just laying there, so I built him a little sling out of gauze wrap and a cork. The gauze supported him and the cork made sure he would float and not sink. He looked so cute in it. He just looked at me and was like "WTF?" He swam around in it for a little while before he wigged his way out. I didn't try to put him in it again, I figured if he got out then he didnt like it and I wasn't going to force it on him... but it did work nicely while he was wearing it. (See picture below, Figure 2)

Sorry the pic is a little bad. I made it larger then I tried to scale it down. Meh, you can still tell what it is, no?

 

[black angel]

You certainly know your stuff any way and the fish have a good owner with you.
As for the poo, keeping an eye on it is a good thing as this is sometimes the only way to diagnose a sick fish. The fish that are trailing the poo are being overfed and the food isnt staying in the gut long enough to be digested properly. The mucous is a sign of bacteria and maybe cutting back a bit on the dried flake may help that.
Its a shame the pea trick didnt work as thats usually the commonest problem. It may be congenital or a tumour, so there may be nothing more you can do for him unless you have it x-rayed. Sometimes a vet can use a needle to either re inflate or deflate the bladder to see if it will start to work again, but usually it doesnt work. Bacterial and viral infections can attack the bladder and stop it working as well, for which i dont think theres much of a cure and eventually the fish will start to lean on its side and then the kindest thing is to put the fish down.
As for the gill plate, this is common in fish and something not to worry about its just an over growth of the filament inside. Maybe if you can have a look when he breathes to see what colour his gills are. Normal gill colour is a cherry red.
Have you tested the nitrate level as some fish can be sensitive to a high level.
Lovely as the idea is of the sling, this isnt a good idea as the cloth will take off the slime coat opening him up to infections on the skin.

 

[Little_Orca]

I will be sure to keep my eye on it. If Mitshu does have a tumor, I will just let him live out the rest of his life. I know that if he is in any visable pain it would be more humane to put him to sleep, but I have read all the fish uthenasia options and some of them seem crueler.

I would love to take him to the vet, but unfortunatly I have no money. Since I am in college, I am forbade by my mother to have a job (so that all my time is dedicated to school... I know I'm old enough to tell her off on that subject, but then she starts with the guilt trip...). Because of that, I cannot pay for a vet bill and my mother would refuse to pay for it. She would just tell me to get another one. This fish are my babies though. Since I can't have my cat at school, these fish have become my best friends and are incredible listeners.

However, I don't think he is at that stage yet. He is active, when he is not floating, and doing well in his little tank. I cleaned the air pump and moved it into his small tank so that he can feel a little more relaxed. He still hasn't turned onto his side and remains on this stomach with his tail up. I think that is a good sign.

BTW, thanks for all the help Black Angel.

 

[black angel]

It was nice to try and help you and your fish. For what its worth i dont think your fish will be distressed at having problems with his swimming.
My own oranda was sadly taken with a tumour on his kidney and i left him to lead as normal life as possible and in the end he died very peacefully. I was watching him and he just lay down on the gravel and just slowly slipped away. very sad for me but peaceful for him.
good luck with your oranda and i know he has a happy life with you.

 

[@ombomb]

Don't suppose you have a photo of him in the sling do you?

 

[Little_Orca]

No, but it was sure cute. Maybe when I get some more film I will take a picture of him in another one. Hopefully by that time though, he will be better and not need it.