The dreaded spot on Guppies...

[DeBuGti]

Afternoon all,

Wondering if you could help answer some of my questions today regarding white spot and guppies specifically female guppies... Over the past few months now one in particular female guppy kept getting white spot. Some of the others had it as well, but after sufficient treatment it all went away.. Until the same female guppy got it again. I started reading forums and understanding that this attributes to stress at times, due to tank changes, temp etc... I started to realise my male to female guppy population was wrong, so I added some more female guppies to hopefully give the others a rest from the male rampage. Unfortunately it looks like the spot has come back... Maidenhead aquatics (fish shops in england) advised that the only way forward is to entirely change out my gravel?

But surely is this not a counter productive task? My tank has developed an eco system now and surely a biological aspect? Changing out all the gravel would surely destroy it all? Needless to say... I bought a bag of gravel there and then and got back home and decided to leave the bag in my car... I didn't want to do something massive like this without seeking other opinions.

Apologies, the other fish in the tank i should have mentioned are fine... And the male guppies show no signs of white spot either...

I did think at some point... should I use the gravel as an excuse to buy a smaller tank to treat the specific guppies and fish, and keep the male and females seperated? Any help would be appreciated.

My tank levels are all within acceptable ranges except for my nitrate which is slightly higher than the normal. I am working on reducing that as we speak by regular cleans and water changes.

 

[GaryE]

How does the white spot behave? Does it spread every time it appears?

Ich is an aggressive little creature, and what we see isn't ich, but cysts it protects itself with. However, other things can cause cysts.

How did you attack the parasite when it was spreading?

 

[DeBuGti]

How does the white spot behave? Does it spread every time it appears?

Ich is an aggressive little creature, and what we see isn't ich, but cysts it protects itself with. However, other things can cause cysts.

How did you attack the parasite when it was spreading?

Hey Gary,

Thanks for replying. The situation has gotten worse now. And stupidly by my doing... I was treating the tank when it had carbon filter pads in the U3 filter. I've since taken them out and re-dosed the treatment, as it looked completely ineffective. So to summarise on your above question.

- Temperature has been increased to 27c.
- Love fish white spot treatment has been applied. Currently just applied the 4 day re-dose. 12.5ml for 125litre tank.
- Daily water checks seem to be showing as normal albeit a slightly higher Nitrate reading. Around 40ppm.

My dread is if the ich / whitespot doesn't clear off what looks to be infecting all female guppies now... I don't know what's next? Do I remove the guppies to keep the rest of the fish safe from this spreading in the next phase?

Many thanks

 

[DeBuGti]

On another subject wondering if an Admin should move this to the emergency section?

I could increase my temperature but I'm worried it will effect the Peppered Cory Catfish and Clown Loaches I have?

 

[Ichthys]

Whitespot is very easy to treat, but you must remove the cause of the stress (only stressed fish get it). Changing the gravel is a ridiculous idea and totally unnecessary.

What are the water parameters?

If the parameters are good (for guppies) then a reliable treatment such as Protozin works well. I would stay well clear of ‘own brand’ treatments such as “Love Fish”.

Since it is recurring, it’s highly likely your water isn’t good for the fish, or some other stressor is constantly present.

 

[DeBuGti]

Hey there Ichthys,

Firstly thank you for confirming my thoughts on the gravel change.

So the water parameters are as follows (apologies I'm still 6 months in and using test strips!)

Nitrate 40
Nitrite 0
PH 7.0-7.5
KH 120
GH 120-180

I live in Sussex, England where our Water is traditionally hard. Which sucks for me I know...

So the original occurrence was after I once again stupidly tried using some treatment to get my nitrates down. A nitrate removal.... the next few days after I noticed my female guppies had white spot. I used some treatment the 'love fish' one and within a day or two the spot was gone. Then it randomly re-appeared weeks later. I then thought after treating it again that the guppy ratios were wrong. I had too many males vs females and the females may have been getting stressed as they were constantly getting pounded on... (excuse the pun) at that stage I bought more females so there was a fair 2:1 ratio. I bought the guppies from Pets at Home... Quite possibly the worst mistake ever as I think one of the small females had white spot... So I've screwed myself over in this sense.

Just to re-iterate

The Cory,
Clown Loaches,
Gouramis
Male Guppies

Are absolutely fine. Showing no signs of ich or acting odd... It's just the female guppies.

 

[Essjay]

GH 120-180

That isn't hard water, it's the upper end of soft to middling. Is that from a tester or your water company's website? With that range I suspect a strip tester, but some of these don't measure any higher than 180 ppm. What does your water company say?

If it really is that low, it's a bit on the low side for guppies but fine for everything else. It could be what's stressing the guppies.



White spot does disappear. The parasite has three stages to its lifecycle. The first is where it is on the fish and it feeds off the fish's tissues. It is protected by a coating so meds can't kill it. When each one has 'eaten' enough, it falls off the fish and encysts itself while it divides and divides to make hundreds of 'baby' parasites. Because of the cyst, it can't be killed in this stage either. Finally, the third stage is where the cyst opens and all those new parasites swim off looking for fish to infect. This is the only stage where it can be killed. If just one parasite escapes being killed, the whole cycle starts over again.

 

[DeBuGti]

@Essjay

 

[Essjay]

Looking at the postcode in the map, you are with Southern Water and they give the hardness for that postcode as 275 ppm or 15.4 dH. That is very hard, so fine for the guppies but not the other fish.



PS, you may want to delete the map as it gives your postcode, which is not a good idea where any forum lurker can read it

 

[DeBuGti]

Hmmm. So what’s the best option now to reduce the hardness? I

Should I try and put the temps up higher than 27c

Thank you for the advise I’ve removed the post.

 

[Essjay]

The only way to reduce hardness is to mix hard tap water with pure water such as reverse osmosis (RO) water.
But finding a compromise hardness is not easy. Our livebearer expert says no lower than 10 dH for long finned guppies (and that means females of the same strain as long finned males even if the females have short fins) but cories and clown loaches need softer than that.

 

[DeBuGti]

Well at least I know it’s not the hardness that’s causing stress?

 

[Essjay]

Yes, the hardness should not be stressing the guppies.


However, clown loaches are very prone to whitespot but yours do not seem to get it from what you've said. Has it been confirmed that the guppies actually do have whitespot and not something else? Have you posted a photo?

 

[GaryE]

Don't reduce the hardness. That is a difficult and expensive process.

February 15 to Feb 22 - all your fish should be dead if it is Ich. I'm interested in the spread - no other fish are flashing? Ich would not stick to one species. Yes, stress lets it cut loose, but once it's loose, it grabs every host it can. I have never had it flare without it being on newly arrived fish, and I have had new fish arrive from time to time for over 50 years. I don't consider non shipping stress as a serious concern. It comes in alive from stores, and I have gone ten year periods between attacks (always during quarantine) so I don't see it being ever present and dormant.

I see a mention of loaches. They are ich magnets when it's present and reproducing. It is a curious situation. They should be in trouble by now.

The big problem is most people have only one tank. I would remove the guppies, but I have space to put them fish in.

I can't find any info on 'love fish' meds. I was trying to see if they have credible ingredients or are herbal or homeopathic remedies. I can't find anything. What's on the bottle, for ingredients?

 

[Ichthys]

Ich would not stick to one species.

It does. It’s very common for some species to remain clear of it while other species in the same tank get it. Unstressed fish are immune to it. Ive rescued many a fish literally covered in it over the years and put them straight into tanks with other fish, knowing that they won’t get it because they’re not stressed. Ive also seen the same thing many times in shops that I’ve worked in (literally on a weekly basis in one particularly bad shop).

Are the spots all the same size and shape?

If it is whitespot, then we know there’s not something in the water that’s stressing them (if the hardness on the website is correct and not the 120-180)., or the Clown Loach would have it worse than the guppies.

Do the Gouramies bother them?