Temperature for CPD

[seangee]

Interested to hear from CPD owners or breeders what temps you keep yours at.
SF lists the range as 20-26. Most other sites are similar although many say 22-24 and the lowest i have seen is 18 with the highest 28.

I ususally keep mine in the 24-25 range. I have observed them to be quite shy and timid, mostly occupying the bottom half of the tank and not very enthusiatic feeders. I have rarely seen the squabling amongst males that is often reported although there are occasional injuries. They have also bred for me in the past - but not for many months.

But they are in a room that gets very hot in summer. A few nights ago I noticed them in the top half of the tank. The otos were also out and about while the lights were on so fearing the tank was too hot, with a possible oxygenation issue, I turned the flow right up on the pump (to a level I assumed would be uncomfortable for them) and also took the lid off the tank. I never fed last night as it was water change night.

The temp is currently at 27 and when I went in to feed them they were in the top half of the tank again. There was plenty of bickering and chasing going on. As soon as the food hit the surface they attacked it with real energy - even taking it form the surface, which is something they never do.

So are all the profiles just wrong or has spawning season coincidentally kicked off in the warmest week of the year so far? As i said at the start I am interested in hearing from people that keep these - I already know what information I can find via internet search engines..

 

[fish48]

They can be a bit on the shy side so a well planted tank will make them feel less nervous and more at home you should not keep less than 6 c.p.d. preferably more I find them to do well between 18c _24c I keep mine in a species only tank I feed them well on a variety of Life foods,
most of danio species seem to do better when they kept at the lower temperatures

 

[Colin_T]

18-30C, but 24-26C is optimal.

 

[seangee]

They can be a bit on the shy side so a well planted tank will make them feel less nervous and more at home you should not keep less than 6 c.p.d. preferably more I find them to do well between 18c _24c I keep mine in a species only tank I feed them well on a variety of Life foods,
most of danio species seem to do better when they kept at the lower temperatures

18-30C, but 24-26C is optimal.

To clarify:

• I counted 32 last night. Since the tank is heavily planted and they are shy there are likely more
• The only other fish are otos - which are not in their space - I also have RCS, so this is close to a species only tank
• I started with 20 in the first week of May 2018. Some have died in the tank and some have been born. I don't want to breed them but I am happy to have a self sustaining population
• After 2 years I have a pretty good idea about their "normal" behaviour
• The overnight temp dropped to 26 because the rain finally arrived. The lights are off now but they are again scooting around in the open.
• They have been eating a lot more in the last few weeks

But:

• It is a (relatively) new species to the trade so there is not a great deal of observational data available
• They are found at altitude so there is a distinct summer and winter
• Unable to find any water temperature stats but the air temperature has a monthly average ranging from 20 - 32 in the 2 locations I found data for. Lowest recorded was 6 but since fish live in water the average monthly temp is more relevant
• Can we really assume that just because they have been classified as danios they fit the norm?

My goldfish experience a range from 0-30 in my pond. But their behaviour is very different in summer and winter (and their feeding levels).
I was wondering whether they have a summer mode and a winter mode and my normal 24-25 falls within winter mode. I will observe them closely over the next few months as the tank is unlikely to drop below 25 before Sept/Oct. Then I guess I will need to make a decision on keeping the temp elevated.

 

[Martyn87]

Hi seangee, I kept mine in 23/24 degree water around 7.2ph and around 6-8dgh. Heavily planted tank.

Absolutely brilliant species very active but you need a big shoal of around 20imo. Really easy to breed as well and very undemanding.

They love micro worms and baby brine shrimp so get them on it and the reds really ping when they get into breeding mode.

I found using a floating moss ball suspended mid water with floating plants the best way to bring them up from the bottom. They also love plants that stretch the full length of the tank as it provides line of sight breaks for them to dart around.

You’ve tempted me to get another bunch now....

 

[Martyn87]

I had a tank in my basement for CPD fry I thought I got all of them out...6 months later I came to break this tank down and I found a lone cpd in there, no food, no filter, little light just a few plants and he was fat and happy...

 

[Martyn87]

For breeding I used to just rotate two floating moss balls between tanks each week. Take it out pop it in the fry tank then swap at the end of the week. I found them to be very regular breeders.

 

[GLAB]

I have ten CPD's in a community tank at a steady 24C. Feed them Dry flake and Freeze Dried Tubifex. When I added the 9 Trigonostigma espei they tended to come out a bit more and join them - mainly the females. I also have 4 Black Skirts that only bother each other. The CPD's are a nice addition to the tank and with the easy breeding attributes I suspect prices will continue to drop.

 

[Byron]

I have a few observations that may be of interest.

Can we really assume that just because they have been classified as danios they fit the norm?

No, we cannot. Ichthyologically, fish species within a genus generally have very similar inherent traits and are the most closely related in their physiology. But when taken to the next classification level, the family (or sub-family if one is necessary as it is here) there can be wide divergence. Descendants of the same ancestor may become geographically isolated [I say may, but this is very widespread when it comes to tropical fish species] and evolve under quite different conditions with respect to their environment including water parameters.

Upon discovery in 2006, the species was generally seen under the name Microrasbora sp. "Galaxy" or the Galaxy Rasbora. Upon being described by Tyson Roberts (2007) [more below] it was placed in the newly erected genus Celestichthys in the Subfamily Danioninae, under the species name of margaritatus; Roberts recognized its close similarity to Microrasbora erythromicron but kept it separate. Disagreement from several ichthyologists followed, until Conway et al. (2008) concluded that the species is closest to Danio erythromicron [originally described as Microrasbora erythromicron but also moved to Danio in 2008] and on the basis of a number of scientific traits assigned it to this genus.

In a 2007 published study, Richard L. Mayden et.al. determined that the species then in Microrasbora are in fact phylogenetically closer to Danio than Rasbora, and subsequently all but one of the species were moved to other genera; Microrasbora rubescens and M. microphthalma are the two and only (to date) confirmed species in the genus.

Roberts (2007) writes this in his description of the species:

That Celestichthys, M. rubescens and “M.” erythromicron belong in Danioinae is indicated by the structure of the lower jaw, the numerous anal fin rays, and perhaps by the presence in all three of sexually dimorphic mandibular pad. The nature of the colouration, including spots evidently derived from longitudinal pale stripes and the essentially barred colouration of the dorsal, anal, caudal, and pelvic fins also indicate relationship of Celestichthys to Danioinae. Rasborinae, another Asian cyprinid group with numerous small and colourful species, almost invariably have anal fins with iii5rays. Annandale (1918), in originally describing Microrasbora, referred some small colourful Southeast Asian rasborines to the genus. They are now in the genus Boraras Kottelat & Vidthayanon, 1993 (Conway, 2005).​

They are found at altitude so there is a distinct summer and winter

This sort of distinction is indeed relevant in perhaps a different way to most all tropical fish species. While "summer" and "winter" may not seem relevant in lowland regions, there are two very distinct seasons in the tropical regions, wet and dry. And these without question influence the spawning behaviour of fish living in these regions. The wet may be seen as their summer when they spawn and the young are developing.

Temperature I believe plays less of a role with tropical species than it does with temperate like the goldfish. Water temperatures in the lowland areas are not that variable throughout the year. But I would not want to arbitrarily apply this to higher elevation species.

Roberts (2007) in his description of the species gives the collection site for the holotypes as,

Myanmar, isolated small, heavily-vegetated pools at the foot of a mountain near Hopong town 30 km east of Taunggyi, elevation1,040 m (about 3,420 feet), coll. Kyaw Toe, Oct. 2006.​

And in the Introduction states,

The fish lives in small heavily vegetated ponds apparently maintained by seepage in hilly grassland at an elevation of about 1,040 m (about 3,420 feet) near Hopongtown, 30 km east of Taunggyi. This is in the Salween basin, about 70–80 km northeast of Inle Lake but not in the Inle drainage. It is apparently near the watershed or divide between two moderately large Salween tributaries, the northwardflowing Nam Lang and the southward flowing Nam Pawn.​

For those interested, here is a link to Roberts paper describing this species, with colour photos.

https://lkcnhm.nus.edu.sg/app/uploads/2017/06/55rbz131-140.pdf

 

[seangee]

Thank you @Byron, interesting reading and very obviously a source for many of the profiles that are out there.
I noted that the cited temperature of 22-24C was recorded in January which is right in the middle of the cool season - these things being relative in the tropics . I have still not found any info on water temps but these stats for air temperatures this year in Hopong (Source: accuweather) do suggest that they may live in far warmer water than many think. It just so happens that the cool season is the dry season which would equate to winter.