Teaching Dogs New Tricks

[Amunet]

Alrighty, so as most of you know or well.. maybe remember heh...
A couple of months ago we got ourselves a new puppy.
Recent pic of him

"Nothin to see here folks. Spongebob is just sleeping... yeah... sleeping *shifty eyes*"

I wanted to start training him like basic "tricks" such as sit, and down etc...
Well so far.. sit and down are the only things I can get him to do and even then, his cute little brain gets them mixed up so he'll go down when he should be sitting or sit when he should be down.

So right now, I want to teach him how to shake. Just the paw in the hand thing, but things just aren't going well at all.
He gets SO excited for his treat that I don't think he actually hears or understands what I'm doing.
Plus, whenever I say shake, he goes into the down position
I just don't think he's connecting that when I put his paw in my hand that that is what I want him to do.

So any help on how to teach a very excitable puppy how to shake would be great! Plus any other advice on more tricks would be great as well

 

[LuckyCricketMafia]

My dog has the same problem he wants the treat so bad he just does all the tricks he knows. I get a treat and he sits then lays down then sits up, I have had better luck just praising him instead of treats.

 

[Tolak]

Use hand signals as well as saying the word. I find that talking less to a dog, and making each word mean something is much more effective than people who keep yammering at their dog. A perfect example goes something like "Sit Foo Foo sit, I said sit, you know mama wants the little puparoozie to sit, now sit, by golly you'd better sit if you want this treat, sit, sit, sit!". That makes me nuts. Imagine someone telling you that in some language you don't understand, with no defining body language.

Dogs are all about body language; hand signals make it so much easier for them. One word, spoken firmly, and placing the dog in position is good for sit, stay, down, paw, and that sort of static command. If you can position them with one hand, while using another for the hand signals its all the better. Once they do it without any or just minimal physical placement, I then reach into the pocket for a treat. I use plain puppy or dog kibble for treats, you don’t want an overweight dog, and once they are more solid with the command substituting praise for treats, and only giving the occasional treat works just as well.

I usually start with a good romp out in the yard, someplace the pup is familiar with. Run some of that antsy energy out of them in a place they feel comfortable, where distractions are minimal or the sort of background noises they are used to. Do not talk to them, unless you really have to. Once they are a little winded, and then had a good drink of water, I start to work with them for a few minutes. 3-5 minutes is fine, then give them a 10-minute play break.

I keep any treats in my pocket; they don't go into the hand until the dog does what they are supposed to do. They will totally forget what they are doing, thinking ahead for the treat. Repetition is the key, but you need to do many shorter sessions with pups, as they get frustrated easily and have a short attention span.

If you ever thought there was difference of opinions with aquatics it is really nothing compared to dog trainers. I start pups with a more naturalist, pack animal pecking order sort of thing, and as they mature & get a little more focus to them I start to reread my old Koehler training book. Some of the older methods seem a little harsh to some, but I've been dealing with terriers for years, which can be very stubborn little dogs, and will always test you, having a mind of their own. You need to be able to read the personality of a pup somewhat, read up on the various training methods, and find one you yourself are most comfortable with. Many times a cross between two is more suitable for you & your dog, this is the reason I start with a middle of the road training method and work from there. Every terrier I have ever owned has had a bit of the devil in them, and a good firm education is what has worked best for me, and for them.

 

[Amunet]

All very good info Tolak.

Still wondering how I'm going to get him to shake though.
I don't do that talking thing you said you hate though lol.
I put his paw in my hand and say shake, then hold my hand out and say shake again seeing if he'll do it.
It took him a bit to get "down", but that was so much easier to teach him to do.
As I said in the first post, I'm just not sure if he's aware of what I'm wanting and I'm not sure how else to go about doing it if there is any other way, ya know? B/c putting his paw in my hands sure doesn't seem to be doing anything heh
Well no, he knows I want something, but he's just not sure what it is.


Ok.. so hopefully in time, he'll learn shake... next up... how do you teach a dog to rollover? Specially one that doesn't like being put onto his back? Oh he'll go onto his side and bellyup on his own to get a good stomach rubbin... but if we try to put him on his back while we're playing with him, he does that thing where he'll get stiff, jerk, wiggle until he's rightside up again.
I dunno, I just can't see him learning it specially if it would have to involve us having to roll him over manually to show him what we want.. ya know?

 

[merry78]

For these sorts of tricks with a pup, i have found that luring and shaping is an easy, positive way to teach them. As others have said, there is lots of different info out there, just find/combine the things that work the best for you. Some authors i think are quite good are Patricia McConnell and Jan Fennell, although Jan's books are more about general living with dogs than specific training.

So....luring: (used for the early stages of training, faded out gradually as the pup gets the idea, by intermittently, and then completely, replacing with physical or verbal praise)
This is where you get the dog to follow a treat in your hand, held right at their nose. (most important is that they are not able to help themselves to the treat- they will try to snatch it, so you hold it firmly and don't give it to them when they are trying to munch at your hand). So, for example, for sit, the treat is held at their nose, then raised and moved back slightly, this puts their bottoms on the ground and bingo. For down, the treat is moved forwards and down to ground level while the dog is sitting. To rollover, get them down, then roll the treat over their chests/necks and they will roll over as they follow it. This will take a bit of trial and error but will eventually get there. Obviously, vocal commands and/or hand signals are introduced in the early luring phase so the pup makes the association early on. This is also a very easy way to teach a dog to heel. Physically putting the dig into the desired position may make them tense, whereas training with a lure ends up being a pup's favourite game.

Shaping is the second phase, where the pup gives you an approximate response to a command, and you are tightening the criteria for a reward to get the behaviour occurring neatly/immediately/whatever you are after. Shaping is particularly useful for things like shake, because you can start pinpointing the behaviour way back when it's just an anxious hop from foot to foot in the sitting position, and shape it up to a paw laid confidently in your hand. What happens is that you reward something that vaguely approximates what you are after, then, when the pup knows how to get the reward, ask for more. In practical terms, this means that you reward the pup for hopping from foot to foot consistently, then, you suddenly don't. In order to get the reward, the pup will overemphasise the behaviour once or twice (an extinction burst) before they give it up entirely- don't let them get to giving it up entirely without rewarding...you will lose the behaviour. So, a bigger hop from foot to foot ends up being alternately raised paws, then you shape for one paw only, etc., etc.

Remember that the treats are not intended to be permanent, only to help the pup make the association between prompt and response.

Sorry for being so long-winded, i hope this makes sense as i tend to ramble on a bit, but anyway, hope it helps.

 

[Amunet]

Yep.. makes somewhat sorta confusing sense hehe

So do you think it'd be better if I taught him to rollover before I go for shake?

 

[Amunet]

Forgot to mention this earlier, but thanks so much for the trick to get them to roll over.
I tryed it with Cid, he didn't go completely around since the side of the couch stopped him heh, but he definitely started to roll trying to get the treat lol

 

[Amunet]

merry78, you're a genius!!!

I was trying to get Cid to do the rollover thing earlier, but he kept just hopping back up trying to get the treat.
So me getting a bit impatient, I remembered what you said about how to start teaching him shake.
Well... I was playing with him with his spongebob slipper toy and noticed that he started raising his paws wanting the toy when I would take it away teasing him.
So I withheld his toy, he started doing the paws up thing, I'd stick my hand out to catch his and say shake and then give him the toy.
I did this a few more times as we were playing and decided to try it out with an actualy edible treat b/c he seemed to start understanding what I was wanting when saying shake.
So I got his treat... sat back down, told him to sit, then down, then shake, and a miracle happened... his little paw went right into my hand!!
He hasn't got it down perfectly yet (he hopped up and gave me both paws once heh)... but I know he's gonna get it all b/c of the advice you gave! YAY *BEAR HUGS YOU!*

 

[merry78]

yay Cid!!!!! He's looks like such a sweetheart.....anymore spongebob/cid title fights in the offing? that last series of pics was so funny....