tank disaster in progress :(

[sandro]

I'm about ready to give up on my current 10 gallon set up, tearing it all down and starting over from scratch. It all started with my attempts at growing a glosso carpet failing (http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=102630&hl=&view=findpost&p=865378). Since then I've had fish die, my other plants have started sufferring and now there's an algae outbreak as well.

I've changed my CO2 recipe, using fresh yeast in my nutrifin C02 system (1 tsp sodium bicarbonate, 1.4 tsp yeast, sugar to the line). I've been adding sodium bicarbonate to my water slowly (during water changes) to try and bring up the KH. Even so, my GH is still 2.24 degrees, KH is up to 2.8, and I can't seem to get CO2 up above 9.7.

I've noticed that the pH in the water just won't change. I don't use any of those pH buffers you can buy at LFS. The pH stays at 7.

Also, the NO3 is VERY low. For the first few days it was down around 5mb/L ... but then it dropped to 0 and has been that way for a while now.

So ... I don't know what else to do. I've been testing the water every day to see if there are any changes going on, but things seem solidly ... bad. I've been adding fertilizer to the water and using tabs in the sand, so there's no food shortage for the plants.

So I'm suspicious of the stability of the stable pH even though I more than doubled the KH levels as well as tripled the amount of dissolved CO2 in the tank. Also, my filter is one of those cheap Aquatech filters, so I'm wondering if that's having a significant effect on the NO3 and CO2 content of the water.

Any ideas what I should do next? Should I give up and start over with new plants (well, new everything except fish)?

(I should mention it's a 10 gallon tank with 4.2 wpg)

 

[zig]

Hiya sandro

mmmm.......a long list of problems

But we will do our best to try and sort them out.

Firstly do you have a lot of surface agitation, if you do, you are driveing the co2 out of the water to quickly.

What are you using to diffuse the co2 into the water?

You are getting algae probably because you have 0 Nitrate or no3 or it could be a co2 issue as well or a lack of phosphate in your water, so any combination of those.

Do you have anyway of testing your phosphate level, do you have a test kit?

What is the lighting setup on the tank, and what type of bulbs or tubes are you useing?

How much bicarbonate of soda are you adding to the water after a water change?

How long has the tank been setup?

Is it heavily or lightly planted? do you have a picture of it, doesnt matter if you dont, just give me a better idea.

And describe the type of algae you have, is it just one type or more than one, and do you know what it is?

And you are correct dont use any of the lfs buffers they are a waste of money and normally dont last very long before you are back at square one again.

And lastly what is your normal KH, PH, and GH without the bicarbonate of soda?

 

[sandro]

Hiya sandro

mmmm.......a long list of problems

But we will do our best to try and sort them out.

Thanks

Firstly do you have a lot of surface agitation, if you do, you are driveing the co2 out of the water to quickly.

I thought of that since I am using a power filter. It's not a biowheel so I guess it could be worse. I've been keeping the water level high so there's no splashing, but there is a bit of a surface current. Would it make a difference if I used some air tubing to make a barrier around the filter?

What are you using to diffuse the co2 into the water?

The ladder that comes with a nutrafin natural plant system.

You are getting algae probably because you have 0 Nitrate or no3 or it could be a co2 issue as well or a lack of phosphate in your water, so any combination of those.

Do you have anyway of testing your phosphate level, do you have a test kit?

Unfortunately no. The only test kits I have are: pH, KH/GH and NO3. If the phosphates could be a problem, I'm willing to buy more test kits. But, I'm reluctant to spend too much money on this tank since I intend to upgrade to a much, much bigger tank within the next 6 months.

What is the lighting setup on the tank, and what type of bulbs or tubes are you useing?

I have 2 light fixtures over it. One 15 inch, 14 watt life-glo 2 fluorescent, alongside a 13 inch, 28 watt cf (coralife). Both lights are 6700K

How much bicarbonate of soda are you adding to the water after a water change?

I added 3/4 tsp of sodium bicarbonate to 50 L of water. Then I did a 40% water change.

How long has the tank been setup?

About a year and a half.

Is it heavily or lightly planted? do you have a picture of it, doesnt matter if you dont, just give me a better idea.

It's lightly to medium-lightly planted. The only plant in it that's big at this point is a java fern that will soon be going away. i just don't want to make any significant changes to the bioload in the tank while this mess is going on, at least not until I know why it's all happening. I'll try and take a picture of it later if needs be.

And describe the type of algae you have, is it just one type or more than one, and do you know what it is?

It's the green spot algae now. My plants have gotten black stuff on them, although I honestly can't tell just yet if it's algae or just unhealthy plant matter. It's only at the ends of leaves, etc.

And you are correct dont use any of the lfs buffers they are a waste of money and normally dont last very long before you are back at square one again.

And lastly what is your normal KH, PH, and GH without the bicarbonate of soda?

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Before the bicarbonate, my levels were:

KH: 3.36 GH degrees
KH: 1.12 KH degrees
pH: 7
CO2: I've misplaced the exact number now, but it was < 3

Now, after adding the sodium bicarbonate:

GH: the same, 3.36 GH degrees
KH: 2.8 KH degrees
pH: same, 7
CO2: 9.7

A few days before adding the bicarb, I started using a DIY recipe for producing CO2, but it didn't make any difference to the levels until I added the bicarb.

Thanks for the help with this, I really appreciate it

 

[zig]

Ok a power filter obviously isnt ideal, its basically un ideal and you will lose a lot of co2 this way but if it isnt splashing the water and only moving the current thats not so bad, as long as its not a whirlpool in there.

The obvious loss of co2 or lack of co2 is probably due to a bad mix of the yeast and sugar etc, check the yeast is in date for a start, you should have no problem getting 30ppm of co2 into a 10 gallon tank, i would make up another mix and try that, i also use the diy nutrafin units, i have 2 of them on a 40 gallon and have no problems getting 30ppm.

Read this thread by gf225 on nutrafin co2 units, it will give you a better idea for mixing

Nutrafin CO2

The ladders are also very effective so i wouldnt worry about that.

Its probably not a bad idea to invest in a phosphate kit, they are around the same price of other kits, but are harder to come by, the lfs usually doesnt stock them but can probably order one for you, or you can buy one online.

The nitrate levels and phosphate levels are very important in planted tanks, idealially you want Nitrate levels of 10ppm and Phosphate levels of 1-2 ppm, think of it as an investment you can use it now and on the bigger tank when you get it, they are also important to be able to check your tapwater for phosphates.

So without knowing the 2 important levels it is hard to give you definate advice for the algae, but even if we assume you have 0 phosphate (and we know you have 0 nitrate) and have 0 nitrate, if these 2 important nutrients for plants bottom out to 0 you will get algae, the algae takes control when your plants growth becomes stunted or stopped due to lack of nitrate and phosphate, it is able to out compete the plants for the available nutrients and gets the upper hand and hence you get algae.

Spot algae is caused by low phosphate levels but some slow growing species of plants are prone to this particularily anubias.

Your lighting is fine for a 10 gallon tank.

I dont understand why the ph isnt rising as well as the KH, it was my understanding that it should but i dont buffer my water so dont have direct experience, but if the kh is to 3 degrees this will be fine you wont get large ph swings with the co2.

Perhaps somebody else can try and answer this part as i dont really know unless i do a bit of research, iggy01 and RYO both buffer their water they would really be the people to answer that one, they both post in this section.

Also in the next few days i will have an article that will be pinned in this section of the forum on fertiliseing planted tanks, so maybe you should keep an eye out for that, i think it will definatly benifit you and give you a much better understanding of nitrate and phosphate in planted tanks and how to avoid algae if used properly.

Sorry i cant answer all your questions but maybe somebody else will.

Good luck with it.

 

[sandro]

Hi Zig, thanks for your help! I picked up a phosphate test kit, and yeah the phosphates are 0 (I tested both the aquarium and our tap water, both 0). I also noticed that I was getting way less than one bubble of CO2 every 2 seconds ... i was only getting one bubble every 7 or 8 seconds. I doubled the amount of yeast and made another batch, now I'm getting one bubble every 2 seconds (and it's only been about 3 hours since I changed the yeast). So, my CO2 has gotten up to 11.8. Also, I added 1/4 tsp more baking soda this time than the last time, and this time it brought the ph of the water up with it along with the KH (went up to 7.4). But the CO2 has already brought it back down to 7. I'm taking that to mean I'm finally doing something right

 

[zig]

Sounds good sandro, next thing you should start checking out is how the get hold of KNO3 Potassium nitrate and KH2PO4 Potassium phosphate, these are dry chemical fertilisers that you can mix into a solution and dose them as you would a normal liquid fertiliser, and this will bring up your levels of nitrate and phosphate, you usually have to buy 500g of each, but this is loads and will last a very long time, and they are very cheap as well so wont break the bank, you could check hydroponic stores or garden centres to see if you could find them.

You will continue to be plagued by algae if your nitrate and phosphate levels remain at 0.