Tank Cycling

[danb_1985]

i currently cannot afford the changeover from freshwater to saltwater....however it is possible to get an undergravel filter, gravel, 1 kilo of LR and the water to fill it.....no protein skimmer or power head for the filter.

my LFS say this is ok to start the cylce with no movement in the water? i will slowly add more live rock up until about 5/6 kilo's for a 13/14 gallon tank.

any comments about this please?

would like to get cycle underway so when i can afford fish its ready

 

[dilbert]

Depending on what kind of liverock you'll get and how do you bring it home. there might be no or almost no cycling be necessary.

When you'll get cured liverock from a display tank or a vessel similar in water quality and you bring it home within half an hour without letting it get too warm or too cold, then you simply swap the liverock from one tank to another and die-off will be very minimal.

That way, you'll preserve also the higher life apart from the bacteria in it. Surely, that has a risk, too, in bringing home unwanted hitchhiker but often are tubeworms and even corals on the liverock that you'll get for free.

But for oxygen supply, at least a little airpump would be needed.

Otherwise, your LFS will be right, most of the higher life will die off unnecessarily and will start adding much ammonia to the system and subsequently start a cycle.

With the former method, your cycling might be done in a few days. If you leave the tank in peace for a while there is no need to add a piece of shrimp or so as this raises the population of nitrying bacteria without any need.

When your ready to buy livestock then test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate by simply adding the amount of food suggested for the critters to buy.

You should see a short spike and waiting a week or so to be sure and testing in the meantime finishes your cycle.

In the meantime just watch the coralline grow and see what hitchhikers you got.

 

[danb_1985]

thanks for that

i literally live 2 minutes from the LFS where i will buy the rock from so getting it to my tank quick is not a problem at all. water should be more or less exact too as i am getting ready mixed water from the shop so salinity shoul be more or less the same!

will probabyly get it started this weekend or next with about 1 kilo of rock for now with coral gravel.

how often should i be changing the water during the cycle?

i was told that once the tank was cycled and up and running properly i should only need to change 10% water per month....is this true?

 

[dilbert]

If you are really cycling and that means you have ammonia and subsequently nitrite spikes than you normally don't do water changes. Exception would be that you would like to preserve some life on the liverock and don't want to get ammonia/nitrite over a certain threshhold. But that's not that what's normally meant with cycling. Every dilution of the ammonia/nitrite laden water prolongs the process of cycling and could spark mini-cycles afterwards.

But if you get cured liverock directly into your tank you won't start a real cycle in that sense.

(Just watch out that the water has already the proper temperature when adding the liverock. I bought my first liverock in November when the pre-mixed RO water that I bought together with the liverock was already 11°C cold and the boot of my car had around the same temperature. What left me only two choices: leave the liverock without water or put it into the cold water. I did the last one. On that liverock survived only a strain of Chaetomorpha. My first stupid error ... )

Generally, it's been said that on a nano you do at least 10% weekly water changes. I do almost 20% weekly and that is often not enough due to overfeeding.

The water changes can compensate the use of a skimmer. If you start without livestock that is not an issue. You can change less or less often.

Also, it depends on the bioload of your tank. Grossly simplifiying: the more food enters the system the more nutrients you need to export to avoid pollution.
A skimmer removes nutrients constantly without water changes. How much skimming or if at all you need depends on the amount of food and the size and number of livestock.
Water changes are necessary with a skimmer, too, but not that much. That's the reason because mainly larger tanks go only with the necessary water changes to restore used up calcium and other elements and do the nutrients export mostly with a skimmer. What you pay on the skimmer in advance you'll save on salt later.
In a nano, the more frequent water changes don't cost that much, are easier to perform, and a skimmer can be left out.

But all depends on stocking. Many people do on a pico water changes twice a week. I am fine doing it weekly because the corals and the only hermit don't eat that much and don't pollute the system as much as many people squeeze even in a pico a little fish and dozens of corals.

 

[danb_1985]

thanks again for good advice. i will follow this when i change over in the very near future

 

[@ombomb]

there's abosultely no point in putting 1KG of LR in a 14G (assuming from your sig) tank with no water movement. An air pump is no use, you need something that moves the water around and through the rock to get the ammonia / nitrite to the bacteria to be broken down. In terms of a marine tank, getting the water movement right is the top priority IMO, anything can be worked round, but wth insufficient water movement, you don't have a hope in hell of keeping a tank healthy.

The undergravel filter is a non-starter, it'll get clogged in no time and be a hinderance.

Marine tanks aren't a cheap hobby, if you're going to do it, save up and do it properly would be my advice.

 

[danb_1985]

there's abosultely no point in putting 1KG of LR in a 14G (assuming from your sig) tank with no water movement. An air pump is no use, you need something that moves the water around and through the rock to get the ammonia / nitrite to the bacteria to be broken down. In terms of a marine tank, getting the water movement right is the top priority IMO, anything can be worked round, but wth insufficient water movement, you don't have a hope in hell of keeping a tank healthy.

The undergravel filter is a non-starter, it'll get clogged in no time and be a hinderance.

Marine tanks aren't a cheap hobby, if you're going to do it, save up and do it properly would be my advice.

so what do u suggest? what filter is best?

i do have a temporary air pump that will circulate the water fine until i buy the proper one?

i dont understand the difference between an undergravel filter and not having one like in a berlin system?

 

[kj23502]

I think what he means is, the tanks not big enough for what you want to do.

Undergravel filters area pain in the butt, however most people who still recommend them are reluctant to give them up b/c they were the "best" back in the day. They trap junk underneath of them. Can you imagine having to regulary take everything out of your tank to clean the darn thing. Plus, with the detritus that would be trapped under there it'd probably cause a pretty big nitrate problem. nitrates are a lot worse for saltwater than freshwater.

I wouldn't do a sw tank until until you can save up to get a bigger tank and do it properly

 

[dilbert]

Reading again the first posting ...

1 kg is a medium sized piece of rock. Why shouldn't this be fine with an undergravel filter for some time?

Everything in this posting is not very specific. It's said "I'll add slowly". Surely, with more liverock and with the time also with 1 kg of liverock alone, this undergravel filter becomes inappropriate but when there is money for more liverock there is there surely money for a powerhead.

If a cheap powerhead turns out to be too noisy, you can keep it as a spare one for emergencies or use it to aerate the mixed saltwater with it.

You could even use an airstone or move the water by hand if you'd had the time to do this every few hours ...

 

[Musho3210]

really, if a 20 dollar powerhead is too much for you, look elsewhere.